49 replies to this topic

[peter.clayton]

I think everyone has good points but I'm always one for compromise. My problem with Dad's posts is that they are written as though he has inherent knowledge of what we are trying to achieve and everything about the business and makes large assumptions.

The site is not designed for new gamblers, absolutely not, they are far too expensive to attract and I don't want the moral burden. We started this site for the simple reason that there is nothing like it and that the A in AWP has been well forgotten over the years.

What we want is very, very simple. People who already play but who are sick of pissing a ton of cash into these things with very little A in AWP. We are absolutely determined to provide a better, cheaper and more entertaining experience. We built this because this is what the guys who built it actually want, rather than some large corporation who has a massive financial ambition to make millions. We have not even planned for profit and we would suggest that where we would make the money is actually selling on our games to others rather than the rake from the games on our site.

Neither are we looking at you guys directly for our income, our marketing plan on launch will not be aimed at you, at all, we are only here as a test exercise and to get the feedback which is helping us enormously.

We accept, however, that not everyone will share our vision and everyone is freely entitled to their opinion, hence the whole point of a forum, but those against us are painting a picture that is new to us because is really doesn't describe our intentions.

Feel free to offer an opinion, but it's best not written in a way that comes across as absolute fact when you don't have any. If you want to PM me about details go ahead, we will be as open as we can. And we will continue to support you, well after we have finished this test exercise.

Me personally, I will still want to be active in these forums as I enjoy them and it has educated me enormously. I have no intention of disappearing after launch because I actually really enjoy this site.

[£6 In Tokens]

Also these will be simulators not emulations. Not an expert but who regulates to make sure that a certain percentage is paid out?

I thought (correct me if I'm wrong) that a real machine (not a sim) will be set at a payout percentage. A sim is random - But who makes sure that the randomness is fair and at a certain percentage? Will it be regulated? By who?

:devil:

[jamesb99_1999]

While I'm normally the first to rant at these sort of things (think I may have mellowed in my old age) - I would say.

A: I think threads we have on here like "I won £500 on this mahine blah blah" or http://www.fruit-emu...ingo-slots.html (I could list many more) are more likely to encourage somebody to join online sites than this tranny thread ever could --- so am suprised nobody voices concern about these but thinks Peter Clayton is tempting us worse than the devil....

B: I love the way on the one hand there are threads and comments wishing the industry will communicate with us, but on the other hand complaining because they do......

C: I was going to link to threads with equally risque links - but as there are so many of them didn't bother...

I'm not saying I'm massively pro Union Jackpots but to be honest I am personally able to wait and see what the site offers.. He has paid for advertising so personally I am going to give him a chance and I'm not saying I don't respect anybody elses alternate view on the subject.

[Geddy]

Are the members fully aware of the details of the 'financial agreement?' For example I'm sure the majority would love to see your contribution to FE as a % of your profits gleamed from it's members. Simply put the more Union Jackpots make the more FE make.

Also to add this Tranny or Fanny, Arse or Elbow or even the Gash or tash I pointed out are old old old and have been around since Sir Clive started dishing out ZX81s. At least you could get some new original crap....

[RB]

we have no ulterior motive except to publicise what we are about to launch it is that simple and you guys fit the profile

Marketing spiel

Indeed, it would be negligent of us to avoid this audience as a business if we are to spend marketing money wisely. And we will continue to support this site too

More spiel

We placed the link in a thread for reasons of tact, which may surprise some of you. We could have just placed the link in the advertising banner, which would have meant everyone on every page saw the link and there would be no getting away from it

True but then it would be more corporate and easily identifiable as such.

By placing it in a thread we receive good debate about what people think and this allows us to tailor our message.

Market research spiel

We know this promotion is edgey and we have voluntarily placed it in a position that is signifcantly less than we have paid for. As we said from the beginning, we are intending to be a company that supports the A in AWP and will listen to our customers unlike the big gaming companies.

Now this is real bullshit...Marketing bullshit, but bullshit. The Real A n AWP is for Awareness, brand awareness.

We are also about to kick in with a significant marketing budget that will increase the number of registrations and people viewing our site and will make it considerably more populated than this one. We also intend to link back to you guys too. In other words, you are more valuable to us than we are to you at this time, but this will change very quickly to the other way round. We will not forget you when it does.

More marketing spiel....You scratch my.....etc etc

I think the best debates are when people can see both sides of the argument and they skillfully discuss both points of view, otherwise it is just a rant, and there is one ranter in particular that annoys me. It would be unpolite to say whom this is.

If this was true then maybe the thread would have been called "Fanny vs Tranny the marketing debate...

There are also some wonderful ironies, and I am not trying to disrespect the following people but it did raise a smile. One person within their post said, "Don't like the content of this one..." just above a box within the post that states, "It's wetter than pussy at a Chipendale's show".

Welcome to fruit emu....and alths quote was a scorcher and still makes me smile...

Better still was this one. "Could easily desend into a porn war as
people try and find more and more pornographic material and mask it as trivia". I struggled to read this one as it was placed just above the on display breast of a woman dripping with sweat and her nipple poking through her skimpy vest. Kind of took my eye of things. Nice signature though.

See above comment...and most Porn is branded NSFW and maybe censored.

Yes it may be deemed as provocative, but it shows no more than page 3 of the Sun which has no age restraints (not that I am agreeing with this) and is viewed everyday by over 2 million people.

Marketing spiel to cover the possible anti porn brigade...as in "no more than"

The real reason I am writing is that in some of the negative responses, in one grumpy old man's in particular (just like your Dad would write) I sense a resentment based on nothing other than a feeling that we are doing something proactive and this is offensive to him. The responses from this person are poorly authored, bigoted with a narrow cast view, are based on absolutely nothing other than a feeling and a mistrust of us from day 1. The man has made his mind up and we do not expect any decent input, good or bad from him so we always discount his narrowly disguised rants as the quality is so shoddy.

I thought you wanted a debate, negative comments are usually more thought provoking than "great one mate" and " Show us some Gash next"..

They are based on no facts or figures, no PM's to us to discuss issues, no requests for information, indeed nothing that could be deemed sensible from which you can then form an informed opinion. And here's the point precisely, with no skilled judgement in them or facts, they read like uninformed opinions and I actually think they reflect more poorly on the author than us.

See above quote.....

And just as a post comes in from this guy you can then predict the exact people who will fly in with support simply because the ringleader has called. Again, we don't mind negative feedback but keep it intelligent instead of monosyllable grunts that start with something like "I tell yer lads...'", or "Me gut says....', this misuses the purpose of a forum and makes you sound like a drunken man.

More marketing spiel to cover the product by discrediting possible adversairies..

I'm not quite sure what qualifies someone as a mod but I would have thought the ability to keep an open mind, have skilled debate and a considered opinion might have been helpful in the job description. Fancy us evil people paying for advertising, getting an agreement and then having the balls to actually use what has been paid for! Outrage!, it's a good job the man above doesn't have any reciprocal links to his site that request donations to help him keep it going...oops.

Now this was slightly stupid...Marketing hype again...but pesonally attacking a long standing member of the "scene" who is well respected doesnt do you or your product any favours....

Who I would like in this debate are Zoltar and Adydb. I have admired both from day 1 because of one simple thing. They bring no knee jerk reaction to any debate and I always enjoy reading their thoughts. They are well written, appear educated, consider all aspects of an argument and you usually learn from them. We could all learn from them. Zoltar (The Hull City guy, hope this is right) in particular wades in with absolute clarity when a thread veers off into unbalanced rants and he is more than capable of changing someone's mind with real debate based on knowledge.

Personal views need to be takern into account in any financial venture, simple market research really...many products fail because they dont smell or look right...and older and wiser members smell tuna because they have a more astute nose....

If you want to take us down then do so. Talk to the powers that be, in a sensible way (discounts one person I guess) and take it from there. Please do not decide this with a pole as I can imagine the slant with which someone will put this together.

Passing the buck....with a slight personal Jibe....again not doing yourself any favours

Do you want these blood sucking, aggressive commercial bastards on our site? Yes / No. Mmmmmmm.

Now we have the truth....did i miss anything??

[Zoltar]

I know theres plenty who have their doubts about the motives here. And to be honest, Dad and Alth's points are definately legitimate and hard to ignore. But just for the moment, putting those aside, are there any positives for us here? I'm not suggesting a positive will cancel out a negative, and vice-versa, but rather than a 'like it or lump it' site from Mr Clayton, which lets face it, thats what all the other 'gambling' sites are or appear to be. Is there opportunity for this 2 way dialogue to create moral benefits? Could this opportunity not be used to our own advantge also? Can we actually have some sort of say with such a site? Mr Clayton tapping into the established user base of here for suggestions, and Fruit EMU, and us taking advantage of maybe suggesting things that the site could maybe take on board. After all, gambling is gambling and profit is the end goal, That is the bottom line. We are never going to like it but if we can even add just a few basic morals, to help point out that there are other issues with people gambling, and maybe have an end result thats not as destructive for the person with gambling problems.

I guess in some respects, Mr Clayton should be commended for at least taking the time out to ask for the views of popular opinion. I'm not sure though wether a site like ours, as Dad mentions, a site with addicts new, old and ex-addicts, is the best choice for gaining opinions from. But at the end of the day, there will be people here and elsewhere who have no problem with gambling at all. And probably are wondering what all the fuss is about.

For us though, it's simply a moral thing. Wether it's right to associate Fruit EMU with a genuine online gambling site. From an 'endorsing' perspective. And anyway, My Clayton will go and make his site regardless of wether we like it or not. It's up to us wether we stand aside and allow it to become just another 'uncaring' gambling site, or try to point out the problems that such sites cause, and maybe have something just a little bit different.

Theres apparently an old saying which stands well in this situation. 'If you can't beat them.... Join them.' Now we certainly can't beat them, and joining them appears to be a big no no also, but could we be able to at least give a gaming site a conscience of some sort? I'm sure that even a small influence from ourselves, may have the benefit of limiting the misery that such sites can cause to people.

There are definately some hostilities towards Mr Clayton and his proposed gaming site. If there is a wider picture here, it does seem to be clouded somewhat by people getting stuck at first base, not being able to see through the suggestion that theres an ulteria motive to all this.


My personal view though is as follows....

No1. Peter Clayton will make his site regardless of anyones objections. If we can at least maybe influence some things to make the site more tolerable for ourselves with it's concern for it's users, maybe able to help those problem gamblers. thats a good thing yes?

No2. I doubt our opinions, views and suggestions will be taken on board without a price tag being bourne. Surely it would have to be a 2 way thing. Mr Clayton's site will only take on board and implement our suggestions, ideas and views if Fruit EMU endorses his site. After all, there would have to be something in it for him in order to break from the norm of your average gambling site, and try to appease those who treat all gambling sites with contempt.

No3. I'm a confessed 'ex-gambler' who was pretty much cured by the repetitive drivel that current AWP manufacturers churned out over the last 10 years. I did spend a fair few years though with this nasty addiction. I still play the odd few pounds in the lower stake machines but have never taken the plunge and gambled online. Although I do play the odd 'freeplay' games online. I think Fruit EMU, and the FME scene keeps me from going to those extremes, and drawing me back into a life that I know for me, will turn to misery and self destruction.


We are never going to have a perfect situation. That will always be beyond us. Compromise is the name of the game here. We do nothing and it's just another un caring site ready to rip the cash from your credit card. We don't have to like it. But we can certainly try to help by putting our views and suggestions forward.

[RB]

I think everyone has good points but I'm always one for compromise. My problem with Dad's posts is that they are written as though he has inherent knowledge of what we are trying to achieve and everything about the business and makes large assumptions.

You are trying to achieve market awareness for your product utilising a targeted audience, i believe this is what DAD had proposed...maybe he could have been a little more eloquent about it..

The site is not designed for new gamblers, absolutely not, they are far too expensive to attract and I don't want the moral burden. We started this site for the simple reason that there is nothing like it and that the A in AWP has been well forgotten over the years.

Dont forget the possible financial gain for yourselves...and to be honest there are an awful lot of sites offering different versions of the same product..

What we want is very, very simple. People who already play but who are sick of pissing a ton of cash into these things with very little A in AWP. We are absolutely determined to provide a better, cheaper and more entertaining experience. We built this because this is what the guys who built it actually want, rather than some large corporation who has a massive financial ambition to make millions. We have not even planned for profit and we would suggest that where we would make the money is actually selling on our games to others rather than the rake from the games on our site.

If this is the case then why not make everything free and recoup your costs from advertising revenue until such time that you retail your products...true market research...

Neither are we looking at you guys directly for our income, our marketing plan on launch will not be aimed at you, at all, we are only here as a test exercise and to get the feedback which is helping us enormously.

See above quote, and i thought we were the designated target audience???

We accept, however, that not everyone will share our vision and everyone is freely entitled to their opinion, hence the whole point of a forum, but those against us are painting a picture that is new to us because is really doesn't describe our intentions.

So why the personal Jibes?? Take into account the views of the minority, however voiced and tailor your product accordingly which includes how the product is marketed or hyped....

Feel free to offer an opinion, but it's best not written in a way that comes across as absolute fact when you don't have any. If you want to PM me about details go ahead, we will be as open as we can. And we will continue to support you, well after we have finished this test exercise.

Some members believe in calling a spade a spade...maybe he should have used shovel...

Me personally, I will still want to be active in these forums as I enjoy them and it has educated me enormously. I have no intention of disappearing after launch because I actually really enjoy this site.

Maybe a little more thought with regard to product placement and wording then.....

[RB]

why the split from the main thread???

Now that does annoy me...

[RB]

Maybe because they are wrong and cannot accept they are wrong. Geddys point about the financial agreement is a valid one so I take it FE is now funded privately and does not now need donations thought not?

Dunno m8, and i aint really bothered......this is all a laugh for me and i frequent here purely for that...as soon as it becomes boring i shall move on. Too many people are quick to take to heart shit that is intentionally posted to illicit a response....in the long run if the internet crashed beyond repair tomorrow, non of this shit would really matter, life would still go on...maybe without the $&%# material and online shopping..but it would still revolve and i would still need to go to work to feed my kids and wife and pay the mortgage..etc etc

I dont mind threads being split by mods if a valid reasons given... and i haven't spotted one yet....

[jamesb99_1999]

life would still go on...maybe without the $&%# material and online shopping..but it would still revolve and i would still need to go to work to feed my kids and wife and pay the mortgage..etc etc

I dont mind threads being split by mods if a valid reasons given... and i haven't spotted one yet....

But how would I manage then :-( my two main vices gone ;-) Although I do think it's strange how threads seem to be split and abyssed without ANY explanation nowadays - something that would never have happened in the past.... (up til about 12 months ago).

[RB]

I've just re-read that 'rather lengthy' post of yours peter.clayton because I just scanned it the first time, My God its not only full of inaccuracies but seems like you're having a proper pop at me personally, I'm deeply honoured. However, out of respect for the owners of this site I've promised to keep my mouth shut and not comment any further on this matter as I think I've made my point, tempted as I am to pull your post to pieces.

Give me a call when you have a vacancy in your marketing department though, I'm sure I could help.

Full of inaccuracies and not very thought out i would agree, also with regard to the personal attacks, he wasnt doing himself any real favours. If he is indeed requiring market research then a more thought provoking attempt should have been made or posted a thread stating as such. Hind sights a wonderful thing

[Geddy]

Mmmm......... well for me the penny has literally just dropped. I am sure a few others have put the relevant pieces together and come up with the same solution.

[ForYouToEnvy]

Better still was this one. "Could easily desend into a porn war as
people try and find more and more pornographic material and mask it as trivia". I struggled to read this one as it was placed just above the on display breast of a woman dripping with sweat and her nipple poking through her skimpy vest. Kind of took my eye of things. Nice signature though.

And you're point is?
Are you suggesting a picture of a woman wearing a t-shirt is pornographic?

If you go back and read ALL of that post you should see it was NOT a
personal attack on you but my worries that if boundrys are not set we
could see the forums getting flooded with these kinds of trivia and becoming more and more pornographic.



*rant and grunt time*
As for you're attack on dad well done on making a complete twat of yourself....

As for you're comment about crazybar's sig it smacks of trying to silence
two mod's who you feel are a threat to you just becouse they dont agree
with you on everything.
*end of rant and grunt time*