Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 4 votes

Fruit Machines Inside Out: Compensation


  • Please log in to reply
154 replies to this topic

#141 mort

mort

    Layout Designer

  • Layout Creator
  • Pip
  • 343 posts

Posted 14 August 2018 - 05:12 pm

Yeah I do really love AutoPlay. It's the feature we have been missing all along in FME really IMO.

 

In the past I have spent many a good few days pumping money into clubbers just to get the pots up and gameplay settled down. The time taken to do this just kills any enthusiasm you once had for playing the machine. 

 

I watched Alex's video about it last night on YouTube and I'm in total agreement with both of you that it's a brilliant feature and wonderful addition to MFME.  In fact I couldn't help thinking whilst watching that video whether the same sort of thing might have been possible using an external program to MFME, one in which we could have setup a script with the parameters and pass the key presses along to the MFME application window. I'm really annoyed at myself that I didn't think of trying that in the past now. 

 

I'm certainly going to have a lot of fun with messing around with AutoPlay, the inner nerd in me is already thinking about leaving a number of machines playing in a VM (I might call the VM "Georgina") for a few months and coming back to them to see the results. I have also been thinking about the warp speed parameter that Oracles VirtualBox provides. This allows you to run a Virtual Machine guest OS and run it faster than the real time clock. In theory this may boost AutoPlay to be even quicker (although that's very dependant upon how MFME works against the system clock timers, lot's could go wrong!) looking forward to testing that though.

 

AutoPlay is certainly something that should be discussed and highlighted more though. In particular I feel layout designers should now release with a basic AutoPlay config in place per layout (as some have already done). I appreciate that this config may depend on what you want to achieve of course, but at least it would always give a starting point and frame of reference for the player to mess around with.

 

We will, of course, never fully understand the factors which can affect gameplay of each and every machine. To do this we would need source code of each machine and then actually be able to understand what it's doing !

 

My point above is that I believe it's important to play emulated machines as close to real life as possible. As soon as I read that post from EdwardB about the £1's IN only and detection for Anti-Stats mode it hit home. Ok, maybe it's only on a small number of machines, maybe it does bugger all to the gameplay. The reality though for us is that we would never know for sure. Certainly for any machines that I care about getting a good emulated experience from I will be setting them up to have multiple coin inputs and ensuring that AutoPlay uses those different coin/token inputs.


Edited by mort, 14 August 2018 - 05:14 pm.


#142 fuzion

fuzion

    Part of the furniture

  • Regulars
  • 1,642 posts

Posted 14 August 2018 - 06:30 pm

I know I go on about it, but the online enabled version of amber was extremely enjoyable.  I was actually playing on machines that I hadn't left in a bad mood.   I'm sure there is a 3rd party project there somewhere for remote play with limited credit per session etc, really did make me play differently as I could go virtual skint....  no one wants that.   Actually when Guitar opened his virtual arcade he had to remove two machines that I emptied, well one but he did have to disable the ability to reset the machines remotely...   Cheeky.

 

LOL.... and some git sharked my Club Cops n Robbers when I'd nipped for my tea.  I was virtually gutted :)

 

J


Edited by fuzion, 14 August 2018 - 06:32 pm.

// stumblin' in the neon groves


#143 mort

mort

    Layout Designer

  • Layout Creator
  • Pip
  • 343 posts

Posted 14 August 2018 - 06:44 pm

I never had the chance to play the online arcade version of Amber. It does sound like a brilliant idea though.



#144 niallquinn

niallquinn

    Member

  • Contributor
  • 689 posts

Posted 16 August 2018 - 06:52 pm

I know I go on about it, but the online enabled version of amber was extremely enjoyable.  I was actually playing on machines that I hadn't left in a bad mood.   I'm sure there is a 3rd party project there somewhere for remote play with limited credit per session etc, really did make me play differently as I could go virtual skint....  no one wants that.   Actually when Guitar opened his virtual arcade he had to remove two machines that I emptied, well one but he did have to disable the ability to reset the machines remotely...   Cheeky.

 

LOL.... and some git sharked my Club Cops n Robbers when I'd nipped for my tea.  I was virtually gutted :)

 

J

 

Ahem, cough cough.

 

Yes it was quite good having online play.

 

NQ.


Edited by niallquinn, 16 August 2018 - 06:53 pm.


#145 mort

mort

    Layout Designer

  • Layout Creator
  • Pip
  • 343 posts

Posted 16 August 2018 - 07:51 pm

Sorry if this is a bit of thread derailment but I thought I should post this.

 

I've kept these two Bullion instances running when I can simultaneously. If you remember the one on the left was entering multiple coin values via autoplay and the one on the right just £1's via autoplay.

 

After that initial surge on the multiple coin input version they have both kept cashpot growth within £10 - £20 of one another.

 

So I'm not sure why the multi coin input had that small initial surge of cashpot increments but it was meaningless really as it's still going to take around £6,000 - £7,000 IN to fill the cashpots on both machines anyway. (remember this is the v1.5 ROM, the v1.6 ROM does seem to fill around £3,000 to £3,500 IN). I was originally expecting to see the machine on the left grow much quicker.

 

I would assume then that the v1.5 code just attributes a cashpot growth percentage (with a ceiling limit) for the relevant coin types inputted.

 

In any case I have found absolutely nothing out here other than possible margin of error/difference. Certainly with a clubber of this generation the anti-stats mode (if it even exists) would not make much sense, as it would be common for a player to pump many £1's only IN. In which case if it had such a mode it should be defined as "Anti-Force".

 

I do appreciate though that Anti-Stats mode was referred to earlier as impacting gameplay, and of course the cashpot fill time is not directly related to that. 

 

I would still very much like to know more about Anti-Stats mode and any other information which would be beneficial for an emulation scene to understand.

Attached Files


Edited by mort, 16 August 2018 - 07:56 pm.


#146 vectra666

vectra666

    No1. Lurker

  • Layout Creator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,976 posts

Donator

Posted 16 August 2018 - 08:10 pm

I know I go on about it, but the online enabled version of amber was extremely enjoyable.  I was actually playing on machines that I hadn't left in a bad mood.   I'm sure there is a 3rd party project there somewhere for remote play with limited credit per session etc, really did make me play differently as I could go virtual skint....  no one wants that.   Actually when Guitar opened his virtual arcade he had to remove two machines that I emptied, well one but he did have to disable the ability to reset the machines remotely...   Cheeky.

 

LOL.... and some git sharked my Club Cops n Robbers when I'd nipped for my tea.  I was virtually gutted :)

 

J

yes amber online was a great idea and very enjoyable with its online chat etc, it made mfme/amber reach its ultimate goal

and i know wizard has no intention of making mfme online wise but just imagine if every mfme machine was available in that virtual arcade, especially with the multi players you could be playing partytime no2 and all of a sudden number 6 its you  rolls in 3 jps up top!!!

i remember someone robbing your cops n robbers, i dont think it was me though lol.


Edited by vectra666, 16 August 2018 - 08:11 pm.

The more I do today, The less I do tomorrow.
Fme is alive and screaming into the 21st century!
Enjoy FME and Happy Gaming!!!!

#147 fuzion

fuzion

    Part of the furniture

  • Regulars
  • 1,642 posts

Posted 18 August 2018 - 02:36 pm

LOL I was only virtually miffed.  I'd have certainly had it out if I found it playing.   I'm not interested in the chatting side of things personally, I was there for the doable machines :).  The most enjoyable aspect was that you had to play differently with a limited amount of virtual cash.  I think I ended up with over £700, due mainly to the working Spotted Dick and Super Multi Nudge.... Think I left that machine a good few hundred quid lighter  :)

 

J


// stumblin' in the neon groves


#148 edwardb

edwardb

    Junior Member

  • Regulars
  • 199 posts

Posted 21 August 2018 - 03:13 pm

I would still very much like to know more about Anti-Stats mode and any other information which would be beneficial for an emulation scene to understand.

 

Hi, not much I can add to what I said previously. We knew from site data a rough number of each coin type you'd expect for a busy pub, and so from that you can work out how many £1s vs 10p or 20p etc you'd expect in a given time frame.

What we did was simply not divert any money to the streak compensators until we'd see another non-£1 coin go in, so you'd never get a streak, and that's one of the main things you want to know - how often does it streak, and for how much?

We also mangled hold after losing nudges and other "cheats" to just make the game play poorly. We tracked how often this happened on site - and we got our numbers pretty spot on because it was very rare.

 

Everyone stuck the change from a pint in, so lots of 20p, 50p etc coins went in, so it never happened on site really.

 

I know Red Gaming did it too, we logged a machine for days on end with only £1 coins and it played like a proverbial. 

 

Hope that's useful.



#149 mort

mort

    Layout Designer

  • Layout Creator
  • Pip
  • 343 posts

Posted 21 August 2018 - 03:21 pm

This is very useful, because as I said I would imagine that many in this scene play machines emulated with only £1's inputted. With something like AutoPlay this needs to be understood even more.

 

Do you have a rough time frame for when this 'feature' first started to be used ? 

 

I think this will definitely help some people understand why certain emulated machines do not give the exact experience they expected.

 

Very useful info. I'm no expert on fruit machines, but this is certainly a great piece of information to have to hand.

 

Thank you for taking the time to enlighten us to these sorts of things.


Edited by mort, 21 August 2018 - 03:23 pm.


#150 mort

mort

    Layout Designer

  • Layout Creator
  • Pip
  • 343 posts

Posted 21 August 2018 - 03:26 pm

Also, would you know if an "Anti Stats" mode would be coded onto a Club machine or was it just AWPs ?

 

I ask because it would be more common, I presume, for a clubber to have just £1's entered whereas an AWP would see the more casual punter (with the pint change) on average.


Edited by mort, 21 August 2018 - 03:29 pm.


#151 edwardb

edwardb

    Junior Member

  • Regulars
  • 199 posts

Posted 21 August 2018 - 03:38 pm

We did it at Mazooma around mid 2000. A couple of guys who used it left in 2002 so it probably stopped then. For other manufacturers, I have no idea. Wouldn't surprise me if Red did it until they disappeared.

 

I'm 99.9% sure it never made it on to our club machines for exactly the reason you mention. Pub machines were the big sellers, and that's where the focus went.



#152 Twostroker

Twostroker

    Newbie

  • Bronze Supporters
  • 105 posts

Posted 19 October 2018 - 05:40 pm

Hi Edward I have a few Global questions if you have a spare 2mins.
Can you explain how pots accumulate for Cashpot version vs rapid pot version settings... sounds obvious but I'm wondering what it means in numbers for the player?
Also do you know much about Global Stealth tech? Why it wasn't around for long and what it was based on?
I'm a fan of old global clubbers but there's not much documentation about them any where on the internet.
Thanks

#153 edwardb

edwardb

    Junior Member

  • Regulars
  • 199 posts

Posted 12 November 2018 - 03:53 pm

Hi Edward I have a few Global questions if you have a spare 2mins.
Can you explain how pots accumulate for Cashpot version vs rapid pot version settings... sounds obvious but I'm wondering what it means in numbers for the player?
Also do you know much about Global Stealth tech? Why it wasn't around for long and what it was based on?
I'm a fan of old global clubbers but there's not much documentation about them any where on the internet.
Thanks

 

Hi

 

Sorry for slow reply! Busy busy at work...

 

Global's club machine were written by a guy called Mark Bishop (aka. Bish Bosh) who has since left the industry. He was a top bloke and did some great games.

 

Stealth technology was quite outdated and expensive to make, and to be blunt, you were far better using hardware made in huge quantities by the likes of Maygay (as we did with Epoch, when I was at Global) as all the service side of life was much easier with a big manufacturer behind you. I would have to ask one of the old guys from Global but have a feeling it was a 680x series board, along the lines of Scorpion 2 which I think they based it off. I could be wrong - I only ever saw one board. It was all Maygay or Heber hardware when I was there.

 

As for cashpots, I think all it did was stick a higher % in the pots (and therefore, lower % to the main game compensators) so the pots dropped quicker. Not much I can help on there, sorry!

 

Ed



#154 edwardb

edwardb

    Junior Member

  • Regulars
  • 199 posts

Posted 12 November 2018 - 04:00 pm

Totally off topic, but you would not believe what I saw the other day when visiting what is now Barcrest in Manchester. They still have portfolios full of the original pencil sketches of games we know and love from back in the day. Saw the concept art for Psycho Cash Beast, Frenzy, Battle Axe and 100s more besides. Absolute works of art.

 

There were loads more from game that never made it to production. Honestly, I was like a kid in a sweet shop. Amazing stuff.

 

I'll ask nicely and see if I can get a pic of one, can't see why they'd object too much.

 

I wish someone would do an exhibition of fruit machine art. Everyone will have seen it, but probably never thought there's some very skilled people behind it all.



#155 fuzion

fuzion

    Part of the furniture

  • Regulars
  • 1,642 posts

Posted Yesterday, 10:11 am

I had an interview there many, many years ago, I was shown the artwork process. I remember seeing the mock art for All Fired Up, it was amazing. They also had a space that workers could play the machines in free play.

J

// stumblin' in the neon groves





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users