20 replies to this topic

[Sandoran]

Steming from the discussion of Spoon's pubs below a point came to my attention that annoyed me the other night.

I actually looked at a new machine at a point when I was able to make a clear judgement (ie not drunk) and decided that these new fandangled things that accept notes are robbing us even worse than we were robbed before.

If somebody puts a note in to get plays then that lovely piece of paper is gone, and the guy gets plays, but how does it affect the machines play? Does this not make the machine able to fill up majorly more than it could before.

I'll give a scenario - Just say the nice maintenance man has been and emptied out the machine so it is primed to play like a new machine. Then people come along; say 5 people, and all use notes to play and don't win (Or what they win they put back in). When person number 6 comes along will the machine not still be like virgin from when it was emptied playwise despite the fact its just taken 5 people's cash?

The things don't spit out notes do they! So whatever they take in notes, they keep! Cos the coin float still needs to be kept at the level its starts at right?

It seems to me the odds of the fruitie ripping you off have just seriously increased and whoever invented note accepting machines should be shot, because he has just further increased the income of an already way to profit making organisation.

*End of Rant*

[funy]

because he has just further increased the income of an already way to profit making organisation.

yea but nobodys forcing you to play

Interesting point you got there, it doesnt really affect me mind you as when im in the pub notes go straight nito pocket and get scrunched up and wont go in the slots it just spits it back hehe

[dan524844]

i have put notes in a machine before and it just gave me change, but this particular time i put in a twenty because there was a huge queue at bar and the god dam bastard machine kept it all for credit and would not change or give me my money back, oh i was pissed off, but still you learn by your mistakes!!

[Sandoran]

because he has just further increased the income of an already way to profit making organisation.

yea but nobodys forcing you to play

Yes they are, the damn flashing lights make you play, they're subliminal or something...lol...


Putting notes in to get change is another point, the ones I was looking at kept £2 for credits and gave the rest as change. So say you use a Tenner it takes 2 and gives back £8, that £8 has to come from the hopper right? So effectively you've just took £8 from the game and it will play like you have, even though it got it back in note form.

They are effectively robbing the next person that comes along because surely it will play unfairly!

[martinmeu]

note machines on fruit machines don't effect the game play or percentage. modern games with note acceptors have a sepperate hopper and if empty just won't take notes.

[Sandoran]

I was told that only some note machines have seperate hoppers and it wasn't a legal requirement to have one or mention whether there was or not.

But if they all do then that's fair enough i guess...("fair enough" in a post about fruities, hah! lol)

[Viking]

Let's be perfectly clear about a few things:

1) A machine being emptied by an engineer or some such does not make a blind bit of difference as to how the machine plays unless he also resets it.

2) It makes no difference what coinage you use in a machine. Ie, you could put all fifties in which would all go down the back, and empty the machine of pound coins. It plays according to amount of money in and number of plays. Makes no difference to the machine that it hasn't got any pound coins left.

3) Note acceptors are generally set up on either dual hopper machines or with a 250 float rather than 125. Again, see points 1 & 2 - If it gives plays rather than change (Which would have required a recent change in the law since up until recently that would not be legal), then those plays count exactly the same as putting pound coins or any other coin for that matter. If it gives you change then nothing has changed. The machine will not change it's state of readyness to pay so to speak since no money has gone in or out.

Note acceptor machines will not allow the hopper to empty for change and stop accepting notes when the hopper balance is about 80 or so iirc.

In summary, no, the note changers / acceptors make no difference to how a machine plays whatsoever. It just mean that they rarely take pound coins over the back since a lot of pubs also use them for change. Also the guy/gal who empties and refloats the machine in the pub do not reset them. Thus this has absolutely no effect on gameplay either.

[Sandoran]

If it gives plays rather than change (Which would have required a recent change in the law since up until recently that would not be legal)

I'll respod to this bit by saying they were as I said, set up to give £2 worth of plays and then the rest in change. So i guess the law must have changed then...

As for the rest I thank you for enlightening me, that's what I started the thread for in the first place. It didn't seem fair the way I was thinking about it (Which was a perfectly valid arguement) but now knowing the state of play I will be happy to use those machines in the future (Though still unimpressed by 70ish% pay out)...You can't blame me for wondering if they were a bit suss!

Thanks Anyway!

[funy]

Yes they are, the damn flashing lights make you play, they're subliminal or something...lol...

damn them lol!

[mrmystery83]

i got told that if i had a £2 coin i should always change it for 2 £1 pounds instead. as the £2 hopper takes ages the fill up. Me mate got told that by a big fruity player. Is that right or just pants? As a lot of the time pubs give you £2 coins in the change and i don't bother changing them for summat smaller.

[Bencrest]

'So i guess the law must have changed then... '

Welcome to the world of Deregulation - the latest bright idea to come from the bandit manufacturers and the Gaming board. Seems from the posts on here as though most people don't appreciate it!

Heres all that I recommend - ONLY take your own change into a bar - say taking £50 in coins. That way nobody is seeing how much you put in p[the speed I was playing at I would have £50 in within 10 minutes, which is why most people thought I was cheating, getting say £50 out within 10 mins every time I went in] - it is often worth changing say £5 at the bar before you start just to see how much change there is incase you need any later on. Also, only take £5 notes out with you :)

'I got told that if i had a £2 coin i should always change it for 2 £1 pounds instead. as the £2 hopper takes ages the fill up. Me mate got told that by a big fruity player.'

What a load of BO**OCKs. Anyone that tells you that is not a pro player, and quite honestly a retard. No such thing as a £2 hopper - only ones available are 10p, 20p and £1. AFAIK ANY machine made in the past five years will only have the £1 hopper - hence the 'bonus win' given on wins of say £2.40 to make up to the £3. Playing on £2 coins can't make a machine play any worse - in fact some would say that forcing the machine to take money around the back like that could encourage it to play better :D

Basically this pro player [unless they are a friend] WANT you to play on £1 coins to fill up the hopper for them, as they believe that the hopper having £2 extra in is different to £2 around the back. Similarly it is used by people to judge when a machine is backing - if they know you are putting £1s in and its backing while you play, they will no doubt jump on the sec you get off :)

It's an evil world out there, and you have to keep yout wits about you..if you want to take the piss - just do what I do. Get a big win on the machine before the bastard/s come in - then once they are in and paying attention, put in a £2, making them think the machine is backing. Then leave, and watch them get confused wondering why it isnt backing anymore and struggling to get their money back :D

BarcrestBenito

[mrmystery83]

cheers mate i weren't sure if it was right or not. i've had wins off £2 coins before like. i do try and listen where the coins are dropping if i can but ya can't always in a noisy pub/bar!!

[Bencrest]

Try resting your foot so it is flat on the cashdoor at the bottom of the machine, should make it easier to tell. Of course, it only tells you if the hopper is full so it is possible it will be backing due to a refill - but seeing is you'll get ripped of anyway it doesn't really matter :)

BarcrestBenito

[dan524844]

put in a £2, making them think the machine is backing. Then leave, and watch them get confused wondering why it isnt backing anymore and struggling to get their money back


HA HA HA HA, Nice one barcrest

[mrmystery83]

yeah i was playing Hell's Bells BFM in my local yesterday and i heard my quids dropping through it was crap for ages and wouldn't even put me on the feature. but i was ok once i took my turbo win feature. then i got a few wins totalling £20 but i was still £10 down on the night!! cos i thought it was gonna JP. i got to a £10 and carried on for ages then..... that's all folks lol grrrrr only needed a few more feature shots for the 2 cash ko's as well :x

didn't do too bad on the Monopoly they've got in there was actually amazed when my supermeter repeated with a £10 in it. which was nice!! but i reckon it was ready to JP from how it was playing. it it only me that seems to get the houses property values doubled on the bottom board bonus but then ya get ripped off before ya get to the top? it's twice i've been one space away from getting all 4 stations for IM as well. instead it decided to land me on the adjacent chance square. and our surveys said...... er errrrrrr lol

ages since i've had a jp the last one was £200 on club cashraker. but i didn't even get a tune or flashing lights or owt which was a bit of a rip i thought. but maybe it's cos i got the 3 boats instead of 4 jackys on the winline?

[mikey95]

note machines on fruit machines don't effect the game play or percentage. modern games with note acceptors have a sepperate hopper and if empty just won't take notes.

The machines with note acceptors don't actually have a seperate hopper, they simply have an increased float level. When the machine reaches a certain low point in its float then it stops taking notes and just takes coins till its float is replenished. This does not affect the payout at all

[Bencrest]

As I understand it machines with Note Acceptors are floated at £250 - double that of the £125 of a normal hopper. Either they've started using bucket hoppers i.e Club Machine hoppers, or they could use 2. I would think that the Club Machine hoppers sound more realistic - but then that would mean upgrading the hopper if you were to add a note acceptor to a machine.

Bet no companies actually do upgrade the hoppers, giving a new meaning to the word 'emptier' :)

BarcrestBenito

[barcrest]

Note acceptors are another good way to tell if a machine is empty.. If it's not offering to exchange notes then it's probably dead, likewise if you make one stop taking notes and then when you return it is taking notes try and change a £20 and if it still up for taking notes you know it's had a few dumped in and may be worth another go... Obviously on the same day otherwise it could have just been floated.

[markdani]

I played a club machine at the weekend (blackjack club) and got the £250 jp, the light to say not enough funds to pay major prizes was on, but also was the light saying change was available was also on...

Could not work that one out

[Bencrest]

When my dad had 2 club machines installed at the RAF base he was stationed at, the bloke installing them asked what he wanted the cashpot values to be jammed on - so basically £250 Pot, £250 Res ... even though it had just been reset :)

BarcrestBenito