19 replies to this topic

[matthewhurley]

Hi - I'm replacing NV10 note acceptors with JCM Vega 100 note acceptors with JCM note recycler RC modules attached on two Scorpion 5 machines - a Reflex Double Agent Club and a Bellfruit Cops N Robbers Smash N Grab Club.   I'm putting them in to solve a coin starvation problem.

 

The Vega sit inside the machine on the shelf next to the coin hopper unlike the NV10's which are attached to the door by the slot for notes to be put in the machine. 

 

I've got a couple of questions if anyone has any knowledge of this:-

 

 - Would I need a new front plate to attach around the note entrance slot (Vega bezel sits inside the machine)?

 

 - Will I have to reroute the loom/plug which attached to the note acceptor?

 

 - Can I get away without the dedicated Vega note acceptor metalwork (I don't have it at present)?

 

Thank you

[aaamusements]

I doubt it's going to be straightforward.

Do you have pictures of exactly how much of the Vega installation you do have? I assume you have the loom for it.

[NickYerPesos]

You will need dedicated Vega metalwork. There are three types. You will need an extra bezel that fits around the glass hole where the bezel is for the nv10. You will also need extra wiring from the power supply and the mpu.. and to finish off it will need to be connected via a note acceptor power supply.

(step-up/down)(don't know which)

So yeh not a light task to undertake unless you have the right parts already and previous experience. 

If you have both of the above its quite a simple operation.

[NickYerPesos]

-------

 

 

to be honest.. your running club machines.. Instead of looking at Vega's I would look into why your getting coin starved.. either your not putting enough in.. youve got hardware error (not diverting, or hopper level incorrect) or someone is fraud in your machines.

[matthewhurley]

Hi - thanks for your feedback.  I've taken a look at the machines today with the Vegas and have found the following:-

 

 - The existing metalwork needs to be removed to fit the Vega (easy - only 3 screws).  It looks like I ma going to have to build up the shelf with some wood to sit the Vega on it as there is currently a hole for the note shute that needs covering and the Vega needs to be about 2 inches higher and further forward about 2 inches.  I may do without the Vega metalwork (low risk site).

 

 - The NV 10 connector seems to fit the Vega (2*8 = 16 pin).  The loom just needs rerouting from the front of the door down to where the Vega will sit (pretty easy).

 

 - Looks like I can use the NV10 front plate/note slot surround with Vega (just need to cut down the long bolts that the NV10 connects onto)

 

 - I've hit another problem - the Reflex manual gives specific guidance for fitting a Vega with recycler (Great!) including adjusting some of the dil switches.  No mention though in the Bellfruit manual.  It is a Scorpion 5 (build date 2011) - but looking inside it looks like a rebuild - the loom is dated to 2007.  Do you think there is a risk that the MPU is not set up to run a recycler?

 

 - NB on the coin starvation issue the machines are 100% clean (meter reading prove this).  Coin starvation on these club machines is because there is £2000 a week going in in notes and £2000*80% = £1600 coming out in coins.  The floats are only £600 each so they are constantly having to be refilled.

 

Thanks for all your help with this so far.

[NickYerPesos]

You shouldn't have to removed existing metalwork.. I've fitted hundreds of Vega metal works with the note shoot still in place. Not sure on the loom as I don't know what you have in your machine.

Also scorpion 5 has no problem with recyclers. It's the programme that might not be.. but if I recall I've had a smash and grab run a recycleR but honestly can't remember exactly. Double agent club should definately take a recycler.. just put on the normal swith for a note acceptor on the scorp 5 board.

 But on the recycler just make sure you have switch 6 and 7 on bank 2 on to enable what you need.. The rest can be off.

With so much cash going in are you running des encryption as Vegas can be compromised and a lot of it happening recently.

Ahh. Although isn't double agent club a scorp 4 machine. Club galloping jackpots and club Alice and club TTLG ETC are all scorp 4.. I know some are scorp 5 thOugh.

So perhaps des won't work.. not too sure.

[matthewhurley]

The double agent is definitely a Scorp 5 - at least that's what the sticker inside the machine says!  Machine was remanufactured in May 2013 so relatively recent.  Ive seen some Vega metalwork advertised in Ebay for £35.  I may try that at least for one of the machines.

 

NB Cops N Robbers can run a recycler on its Scorpion 5 board - how does it know to select note payout as opposed to coin hopper payout, without selecting this via DIL switches etc?  Would the Vega recycler 'Tell it' to do this via CC talk - or am I missing something?

 

Good point about DES encryption.  The Vega's arrived with their DIL's set to unencrypted CC Talk so maybe better to change this?

 

Thanks

[matthewhurley]

Hi - back again.  I've now got hold of the right metalwork to get the Vega's into the Reflex and Bellfruit machines.  However when I got the metalwork I also got a short loom and a small circuit board with a heatsink on it.  I'm not sure what to do with them.  The black 16 pin connector on the loom fits the Vega but I'm not sure where the other end plugs into - does it go on the Scorpion 5 motherboard or clip into the Bellfruit wiring loom?  If so its going to be a lot easier than rerouting the connection loom from the door where the existing NV10 note acceptor is sited).

 

Please see attached photos.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

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[aaamusements]

That loom is just a power one - probably for illumination?

[aaamusements]

And the board is a power supply unit:

https://www.google.c...5F4bR7Qb9uoD4Dw

[matthewhurley]

Got the Vega and recycler up and running on the Reflex tonight!  Next stop the Bellfruit - though I do have some concerns about software compatibility on that one.

 

Thanks for all the help everyone!

[matthewhurley]

Hi - finally got the metalwork and installed the Vega into the Bellfruit.  As a reminder it's a Cops n Robbers Smash N Grab Scorpion 5.   I confirmed with BFM that it has the right software to run a Vega and recycler (it was manufactured in April 2011).  However - I have a problem. 

 

I have got the machine to recognise the Vega's BNV key - they are talking to each other no problem.  I have gone into the extended test menu 10b and can switch the recycler on and off - so the machine is recognising the recycler.  However I cannot set the denomination of the note to be recycled and as a result I am getting a "RC Denom Error 19" error whenever the recycler is set to "on".

 

If I set the recycler to "off" via Test 10b it works OK in note accepting mode only (no recycling). 

 

Does anyone know how to set the denomination via test or otherwise?    I think there much me another test menu that I cannot find.

 

Thanks

[NickYerPesos]

The dip switches on the side of the recycler controls what notes are paid in and out.
rc denom error is a bitch. It pops up all the time on older scorp 5 machines.
If you ever have a des machine with rc denominations, take the des switch off (8) and it should work.
but going back to your point on the side of the recycler.. The white Dips.. turn 2 on to recycle tenners.. I think just switch 1 on is twenties and just switch 3 on is fivers.
but switch two is definately tenners

[matthewhurley]

Thanks for the info.  I've got the Vega acceptor with DIPS 6 and 7 on bank 2 on and everything else off so this should be CC Talk encrypted, but DES disabled.  I rang Bellfruit today who told me on the older machines (like this) the note denomination is via the recycler DIPs (as you suggest).  Only more modern machines can control the note denomination via the test menu. 

 

I might give it a go on the machine again with this - though I'm pretty sure I've tried the DIP's (DIP 3 for £20's per the JCM manual for UK banknote software) yesterday and still got the denom error.  Perhaps the machine is just a bit temperamental?  May try tomorrow.

 

I've seen a Smash N Grab with a working Vega so it must be possible........

[matthewhurley]

NB - Nick - when you refer to DES DIP switch 8 - do you mean on the Vega or the MPU?

 

Thanks

 

Mat

[NickYerPesos]

On Vega dip bank 2.. you have switches 6 & 7 on which is running non des. If you had switches 6, 7 & 8 on it would be des but you would have to pair it up before that would work. Smash and grab I'm guessing is 99% likely to be a non des machine only anyway.
I can't think why you would be running into rc denom error. Perhaps it only works on the tenner mode (switch 2 on rc)

Edited by NickYerPesos, 16 April 2015 - 07:38 AM.

[matthewhurley]

Thanks -  if doesn't work with £20's I'll try dip 2 to see if £10's work. 

[matthewhurley]

I've taken another look at it.  It is currently taking notes and putting £20's into the recycler - but not paying notes out.  This is probably because I've got Test 10b switched to note recycler "off" so the machine is not talking to the recycler (only the acceptor).  I soon as I go to Test 10b the alarm goes off and "RC Denom Error 19" comes up (again).

 

Does anyone have any further ideas?  If I left the alarm running for a set period of time is there any chance it could time out and the machine operate properly?

 

Help!

 

Thanks

[matthewhurley]

NB - for clarify the "RC Denom Error 19" only comes on if I go to Test 10B and switch the machine to Recycler "on".  It's then obviously trying to communicate with the recycler but throwing out the Denom Error and putting the alarm on.

 

I was wondering if I rode out the alarm and error for several minutes etc it might clear and the machine start to operate properly ie correctly communicate with the recycler.

 

Thanks

[matthewhurley]

Good news!  I got the Vega recycler to work on the Bellfruit Cops N Robbers.  The problem was the early Bellfruit recycling software can only handle £10 note recycling.  I had assumed wrongly it could do £20's.  The solution was to set the Vega recycler DIPS to no.2 on all others off (the sequence for £10 recycling).  Turn off the power, turn it back on again, then go to Test 10B and enable the recycler (no alarms or error message this time!)

 

The machine will now pay out £10 notes but only on credit balances over £20 total.  I.e. if you won £27 it would pay out £10 in a note and £17 in pound coins.

 

NB We have just taken delivery of a brand new B4 £400 Bellfruit machine.  On this one you can use Test to select any denomination of note to pay out (£5, £10 or £20).

 

Hooray!