8 replies to this topic

[fruit87]

I am trying to sell an old 1960s or 1970s electromechanical fruit machine called "Duet"

When listing it on eBay they keep removing it saying i need a licence.

My listing stated that the machine doesn't work and only took old money, so no financial gain can be made etc.

 

eBay states this exception:

1. Gaming machines, regardless of age, that cannot be used to acquire an opportunity to win a prize (i.e. money, article, right or service).    

 

Surely my machine comes under this exception. As a non functioning machine cannot payout money. Even if it did work it wouldn't payout legal tender as it only takes pre-decimal coins. 

 

Can someone please suggest the best place to sell old collectable items like this? 

 

Many Thanks 

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[aaamusements]

To put it simply, the only way to legally sell any fruit machine at this time is to acquire the "Single Machine Permit" from the Gambling Commission.

 

The "non working" clause arguably means that a broken machine can be sold without a license - however because the machine can in theory be fixed, it's still classed as a gambling machine.

 

The non-legal tender/obsolete currency argument is also irrelevant as the machine could be adapted to pay out current, legal currency.

 

 

Despite all this, it's worth noting that the Gambling Commission is not really terribly interested in prosecuting people selling a machine of this vintage, HOWEVER it is still their duty to enforce the law uniformly regardless of the age of the machine, and because of this Ebay will often pull these sorts of listings...

 

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[aaamusements]

Probably one of the best pieces of information (in my own humble opinion) is from the terms and conditions of my own website here:

http://www.fruit-mac...e,content_pages

 

The good thing about the text below is that it has been submitted to, and approved by the Gambling Commission themselves as being factually correct - however it could still be subject to interpretation via test cases in a court of law - the GC do not make the laws, they only have the unenviable task of interpreting them - and therefore their opinions on the law are by no means definitive...

 

 

Sale of licensed AWP (Amusements With Prizes) gaming (gambling) machines

You will normally need a license to sell AWP gaming machines (fruit machines), and certain other machines involving an element of chance and where any prize awarded is more than the initial stake.

What is a gaming machine (fruit machine, slot machine)?

A gaming machine is defined by the Gambling Act 2005 as a machine that is designed or adapted for use by individuals to gamble (whether or not it can also be used for other purposes). Most gaming machines are of the reel-based type and are also known as fruit, slot, or jackpot machines - but manufacturers are increasingly moving to video based, touchscreen operated technologies.
Machines that offer only the return of the original stake, or which do not otherwise offer a prize (other than a free play) are NOT classified as gaming machines.
SWP (Skills With Prizes) coin operated machines, often known as Quiz Machines but encompassing other skill-based formats, are not classed as gaming machines and can be sold without a license. To check that your machine is correctly classified as an SWP machine there are guidance notes HERE.

A Gaming Machine may in certain specific circumstances be sold without a license:
 

• When a machine is classified as scrap (without any element of salvage).
• Where there is no longer any opportunity to win a cash prize. This could be because the hopper/s or payout mechanism/s are completely and irreversibly removed, or if the machine has otherwise been put beyond any future operation by the removal of key components or similar action.

If you are a regular seller of fruit machines, you will usually need to have a "Non-remote gaming machine technical – supplier" Operating Licence from the Gambling Commission.
You must enter details of your license number and business name during the registration process on this site. You are also required to display this information, as well as a link to The Gambling Commission website, on all applicable AWP listings.

If you collect gaming machines as a private individual and you want to sell a single machine, you do not need an operating licence to do so. However, you do need to obtain a single machine permit from The Gambling Commission.
Guidance notes for the completion of the form are here.

Single machines permits will only be issued in specific circumstances and are not intended for regular sales in the course of commercial business - in these circumstances a supplier operating licence is usually required.

Please be aware that The Commission will make further checks to ensure that you qualify for a single machine permit.

[aaamusements]

Well spotted thanks, will edit that as soon as I have a mo.

[fruit87]

Thanks for your responses and suggestions 

I've heard of these permits recently, but at £25 per machine i'm not sure it's worth it, as i'm only asking around £100 for Duet. 

If i was selling a machine for hundreds of pounds, then sure i would buy a permit to keep the gambling commission happy. 

I've tried Gumtree actually, but they also take it down. It's a shame it has become difficult for hobbyists to simply sell the occasional machine. 

I like the idea of listing a pile of old coins for sale and throwing in a free money box. I will have to try that soon if all else fails.

[richy1976]

seen sellers fruit machine bulb with free fruit machine before.

[aaamusements]

Thanks for your responses and suggestions 
I've heard of these permits recently, but at £25 per machine i'm not sure it's worth it, as i'm only asking around £100 for Duet. 
If i was selling a machine for hundreds of pounds, then sure i would buy a permit to keep the gambling commission happy. 
I've tried Gumtree actually, but they also take it down. It's a shame it has become difficult for hobbyists to simply sell the occasional machine. 
I like the idea of listing a pile of old coins for sale and throwing in a free money box. I will have to try that soon if all else fails.

Gumtree are an eBay owned company so they will enforce similar policies, usually in a similarly inconsistent way!