13 replies to this topic

[paulMCS]

..........this dont happen very often!!,...does it?

[Chopaholic]

'Twas an exploit I believe, as I understand it the £70 Barcrests have had all kinds of shit on them.

There was a Star Wars around here (not that exact one, think it may have been Empire Strikes Back actually) that was perpetually the deadest machine you've ever seen, something to do with low value cash repeaters going mental and other things IIRC. Fortunately I never got more than a tenner or so involved with it 'cause I know a dead machine when I see one, but a few folks lost their shirts on it.

[Guitar]

So how does this happen?

Exploits like this I mean. As far as I can see it must be 1 of 2 things. 1) Deliberatly left in / put in the code by unscrupulous coders. or 2) Some sort of exploit allowed by the compiler and people disassembling ROMs to find them.

By the nature of the complexity of machines its certainly not impossible to concieve that compiled code could be minipulated somehow maybe via an unchecked value that could be minipulated by not playing the game as intended. Modern AWP's have a hell of a lot of features and hidden bonuses + wins. The more complexity you add to the code, the more potential opportunities arrive for an unchecked value or branch to occur.

Remember that computers always do exactly what they are programmed to do. But by the nature of programming its indeed very possible to write come code that looks to do exactly what you want, but under a set of exacting circumstances may do something slightly different. BUT the amount of visible code in a fruit machine, i.e. the bits of code that make something happen to the alpha or lamps etc, is pretty small. So a bug which adds an extra tenner to the compensator (for example) may only happen once in a blue moon under "normal" play, where the uninformed play the game at face value and so it likely wouldnt be picked up in testing. Say the bug is derived when you hold all three reels with different symbols on them. Under normal play its highly unlikely anyone would do this, but once you know to do it, its going to be an easy empty.

Thats a very much simplified version of an emptier but you get my drift.

But given its the regular punters that suffer from playing dead machine after dead machine, and its that which is causing the industrry to suffer (amongst other things), shouldnt they (the manufacturers) be more bothered about this sort of thing. It seems to happen way too often.

[nails]

all machines (by each different software house) use a set code that used time and time again. for a re-badge for example its the alpha and the sounds that are changed. some times the game play is updated, the the basis is the same. therefore if an emptier `pops up` IMHO it was blatantly put there.

ive heard over the years of `sloppy programming` but i just dont buy it. i had a magic 7 bingo £500 jp, that when you turned it off and on - it doubled the bank...

somewhere within the code on powerup would have been bank=bank*2, and thats no error at all. the guy at electrocoin (mike nando?) denyed all knowledge of the said emptier or buy, yet shipped a USB dongle down next day delivery.......... free of charge

[Chopaholic]

Well there's more than one kind of emptier/method/exploit etc.

If the win is genuinely 'free' (i.e. the code isn't aware it's paid out the win) then it doesn't actually affect how the machine plays for everyone else. (The emulated IMPACT machine Wild West has a working 'free win' emptier on it so you can see yourself. You can take enough money out of so that a real machine would IOU, but it actually carries on playing perfectly nicely when played normally.)

If however, the code is being forced/manipulated into doing something it wasn't intended to do, but all wins are still accounted for and the machine has to claw back to make percentage, then it will be a horrible experience for other people to play. (The emulated MPU5 machine Pie Factory demonstrates this very well with the 'double pot' technique, which can leave in its wake a £15 jackpot machine that'll take £30+ and block everything above £2.)

As for whether these things are mistakes or corrupt coding - that's a whole other matter, but I think the consensus is that's a been a combination of the two over the years.

[Starleisure]

Well there's more than one kind of emptier/method/exploit etc.

If the win is genuinely 'free' (i.e. the code isn't aware it's paid out the win) then it doesn't actually affect how the machine plays for everyone else. (The emulated IMPACT machine Wild West has a working 'free win' emptier on it so you can see yourself. You can take enough money out of so that a real machine would IOU, but it actually carries on playing perfectly nicely when played normally.)

If however, the code is being forced/manipulated into doing something it wasn't intended to do, but all wins are still accounted for and the machine has to claw back to make percentage, then it will be a horrible experience for other people to play. (The emulated MPU5 machine Pie Factory demonstrates this very well with the 'double pot' technique, which can leave in its wake a £15 jackpot machine that'll take £30+ and block everything above £2.)

As for whether these things are mistakes or corrupt coding - that's a whole other matter, but I think the consensus is that's a been a combination of the two over the years.

Edited by CrAzYbAr, 29 November 2010 - 02:09 PM.

[ady]

star leisure, all I can see is a quote?

[nails]

Well there's more than one kind of emptier/method/exploit etc.

If the win is genuinely 'free' (i.e. the code isn't aware it's paid out the win) then it doesn't actually affect how the machine plays for everyone else.

gotta stop you there m8, and my example is the 4-reel deal or no deal free win emptier (tried and tested!).

basically you play the machine and manipulate a board that is a free win i.e. doesnt affect the % ok, however after say £200 worth of free plays cycled through and free money taken away, you leave the machine soooo happy because it thinks it has taken the £200 but not paid out.

the effects were hilarious. you could empty a machine of £250 in say 20 mins, and the next person would put a few pounds in and get a machine that was so happy that jackpots could roll in and repeat.

trick - play £7.20 on 30p and refuse all wins. switch to 50p and the weird symbol would roll in on for a feature board. this board was FREE. play as far as you can go and collect the highest win. the more you did this the £7.20 would be reduced. if it dodnt work just switch back to 30p and play a few more spins. the free boards would become more prosperous, eventually going right near the top. just continue till about £220 and then start to take normal board to get rid of the `happy` mode for the next guy.

and this could be a programming error? no chance. it was a cleaverly planned emptier that i have no doubt make the programmer thousands.

[markleshark]

star leisure, all I can see is a quote?

snap!!

[CrAzYbAr]

I think he was trying to quote Chopaholic but wrote his message round Chop's quote boundaries, so I just got rid of them, as I can't see that Chopaholic posted a messagae the same as what was "quoted"

[gambogaz1]

The above machines exploit was purely barcrests fault at rushing out a £70 upgrade and missing a clearly obvious mistake. Just pure greed, they tried tempt you into playing £1 stake by giving you extra stuff than on 50p play but they didn't realise what a balls up that was.
On top of that the machine was set-up with such shite win values £15 jumping to £70 and the cash shots all £5 and under bar 2 they then had the brainwave of bringing in the guaranteed repeats to make up for it, but with that combined with the exploit = Collossal error and you get your video above.


Most exploits I feel are put in on purpose but JP rips tend to be mistakes.

Nails I was led to believe it wasn't a free win board on the 4 reeler, more seperate stake pots, so playing your 30p stake but boarding 1st spin on 50p meant the 30p board was getting buzzed up to f***. But you only played out the 50p board until the hopper was 2 thirds empty then play off the reflex 30p stake to prevent an IOU? IT's been a while though so maybe i'm wrong.

[spa]

I love Barcrest.

[Starleisure]

star leisure, all I can see is a quote?

Hi,

Yea i wrote a comment about the above vid then after a 2nd viewing noticed something i did not the first time round making my post a complete waste of time, lol.

But i could not find a way to delete therefore felt was best to just remove by editing.

Sorry for the confusion peeps.

[markleshark]

Hi,

Yea i wrote a comment about the above vid then after a 2nd viewing noticed something i did not the first time round making my post a complete waste of time, lol.

But i could not find a way to delete therefore felt was best to just remove by editing.

Sorry for the confusion peeps.

wot was it you noticed? please tell!! im extremely interested in this post + hope it will have the highest views ever, i just wish it was me playing it!!! the more you think about manipulation the more possibilities seem possible, i think the "key" with this is 2 experiment, dont play like a nob, e.g predictable + like all the others, holding all 3 for no explanation at all really does generate some weird looks, but not as weird as how i look at them when they lost it all??? may the force be with u!!!!

Edited by markleshark, 30 November 2010 - 08:23 AM.