144 replies to this topic

[fruitnutter]

Hi folks, just logged on to find about 30 new posts since I last looked yesterday afternoon. I've read everything and believe that I can address the concerns in such a way that the program might still be acceptable. I will try to answer all the concerns raised by each one of you. If it turns out that I'm wasting my time because no one wants what I could offer, then I'll call it a day and won't attempt to further the project. However, if it turns out that I am able to adjust the software in a way that then benefits this site (and I've got some ideas on ho to do it), then thats what I will do.

 

Later on, after I've addressed everyones comments, I will lay out what I could change on the software. Then, everything could be in one place, but this site gets all the traffic.

 

Let me suggest what I've got in mind, and then see if it's acceptable.

 

To be continued later today when I have time.

 

Hi Geddy - obviously we work from the same info that you see here is what I see at DIF as Moderators etc.

 

Why this this sleeper account from the original poster allowed to stand - should this not be closed - as far as I am aware his "real" account is still active and I think there's a little piece from the Admin about duplicate accounts etc on the main page ?

 

Thanks.

 

Why are you so absolutely intent on getting rid of me? Can't you just let things lie? Last time I spoke to you was about a year ago. Can't you see I'm trying to help the emulation scene? Why try to continuously get rid of me until I just get fed up and leave. Doesn't make any sense my man.

[Reg]

Why are you so absolutely intent on getting rid of me? Can't you just let things lie? Last time I spoke to you was about a year ago. Can't you see I'm trying to help the emulation scene? Why try to continuously get rid of me until I just get fed up and leave. Doesn't make any sense my man.

 

When you signed up for DIF with this account I asked you in a PM what brought you back to DIF.

 

I told you that your account was banned until you responded directly back to me.

 

You responded, you told me that you "accidently" signed up to DIF, didn't mean to and didn't want to be there.

 

That was that.

 

You then again signed up to the site using a throwaway email address.

 

I opened the door to you - you closed it - said you didn't want to be part of the site and then signed up under another alias.

Edited by Reg, 06 October 2018 - 10:04 AM.

[FruitEMU]

Hi Geddy - obviously we work from the same info that you see here is what I see at DIF as Moderators etc.
 
Why this this sleeper account from the original poster allowed to stand - should this not be closed - as far as I am aware his "real" account is still active and I think there's a little piece from the Admin about duplicate accounts etc on the main page ?
 
Thanks.

Fair point. To be honest though the rule about duplicate accounts exists to dissuade those who in the past kept setting up new accounts to game the download limits.
Hence there is a degree of flexibility within the rule. Its not designed to punish those who choose to return with new accounts. That would probably affect half the active membership...

In an ideal world we would merge new accounts with old ones, but thats impossible at this time because of the state of the elderly database and the obsolete, retired version of the forum software which we are still stuck with for the foreseeable future. Merging also tends to make historical membership data, which could be seen as important, disappear or become problematic.

Suffice it to say that any other account/s which Fruitnutter might have are dormant, and any permissions that they had on that account have been completely restricted, and they cannot post from or download through them.

Edited by FruitEMU, 06 October 2018 - 11:45 AM.
Spelling - effect/affect

[Reg]

Fair point. To be honest though the rule about duplicate accounts exists to dissuade those who in the past kept setting up new accounts to game the download limits.
Hence there is a degree of flexibility within the rule. It’s not designed to punish those who choose to return with new accounts. That would probably effect half the active membership...

In an ideal world we would merge new accounts with old ones, but that’s impossible at this time because of the state of the elderly database and the obsolete, retired version of the forum software which we are still stuck with for the foreseeable future. Merging also tends to make historical membership data, which could be seen as important, disappear or become problematic.

Suffice it to say that any other account/s which Fruitnutter might have are dormant, and any permissions that they had on that account have been completely restricted, and they cannot post from or download through them.

 

Thank you for your response here and explanation.

 

At least now we know we're dealing with one person who now is going to be going by the name of fruitnutter - I guess consider it a name change.

Edited by Reg, 06 October 2018 - 11:31 AM.

[fruitnutter]

 

Fair point. To be honest though the rule about duplicate accounts exists to dissuade those who in the past kept setting up new accounts to game the download limits.
Hence there is a degree of flexibility within the rule. It’s not designed to punish those who choose to return with new accounts. That would probably effect half the active membership...

In an ideal world we would merge new accounts with old ones, but that’s impossible at this time because of the state of the elderly database and the obsolete, retired version of the forum software which we are still stuck with for the foreseeable future. Merging also tends to make historical membership data, which could be seen as important, disappear or become problematic.

Suffice it to say that any other account/s which Fruitnutter might have are dormant, and any permissions that they had on that account have been completely restricted, and they cannot post from or download through them.

 

 

As far as any duplicate accounts may or may not go, I have previously spoken to Alex about this and resolved the matter.

Edited by fruitnutter, 06 October 2018 - 11:46 AM.

[fruitnutter]

Anyway, moving forward, my idea would be to maintain the software, but instead of allowing downloads directly through the software (which does cost me money, via bandwidth, by the way), what could happen is that someone clicks on "download" and they get directed to the relevant download page on the fruit-emu site? That way, the site gets visitors, and the software helps by keeping everything in one place.

 

Effectively, someone uses the software to find the layout or resources that they are looking for, and then gets redirected to the relevant forum that the author of that work has uploaded to.

 

What do you creators think about this idea?

[fruitnutter]

Dont think anyone wants the scene to stop getting bigger. We want to,like i said before encourage people to get involved and this software doesn't help in anyway it just bypasses the sites completely.

I think the other fact is that you are a new member?? that seems to know a lot about FME and coming into the scene and dropping this on everyone without some sort of, getting feedback on your idea's and not getting permission of anyone about using there stuff.

 

Yes, in hindsight it would have been much better and more respectful to seek out permission from the relevant authors of the work.

 

I got excited with the project and didn't think things through properly.

 

My bad.

[fruitnutter]

 

Indeed, if your intentions were you do something for the scene then great, but do your homework first. Getting blessings from authors and designers would of been the best route and the members could of helped you come up with the best solution that might of been a compromise to suit all. Clearly appearing on the scene and going 100 miles and hour upsetting the apple cart has caused some pushback here.

 

Having said that, although I admit to not reading all of your threads/post it seems clear to me that you are no stranger to the scene, I'm sure others can see this too. If you want to evolve within or return to the scene then great and it's clear you have some skills you can bring to the table. But being open and transparent about it will speak volumes about you intentions.

 

I hope you can understand peoples reservations, take on board and join in.

Hi Pook,

 

You are right, as I previously said a few moments ago, I should have sought permission and perhaps feedback from the wider community. I got carried away and excited with the project, which was not a good thing.

 

I mistakenly thought that I was helping this site, but on reading the members comments, it appears I may have been drawing interest AWAY from the site, which was not my intention at all.

 

I definitely intend to change things

[RHM]

Anyway, moving forward, my idea would be to maintain the software, but instead of allowing downloads directly through the software (which does cost me money, via bandwidth, by the way), what could happen is that someone clicks on "download" and they get directed to the relevant download page on the fruit-emu site? That way, the site gets visitors, and the software helps by keeping everything in one place.

 

Effectively, someone uses the software to find the layout or resources that they are looking for, and then gets redirected to the relevant forum that the author of that work has uploaded to.

 

What do you creators think about this idea?

 

Wow, loads to read since yesterday.

 

Yes.

 

You're not forcing anyone to use it, if they don't like it they can uninstall it.

 

I'm sure there's a way to keep everyone happy.

[fruitnutter]

God guys,someone tries to add something I personally think could be really good for the scene and everyone starts biting the poor guys head off,bloody filthy,no wonder its been so friggin turbulent throughout time,and so many peeps have gone awol it's just not good for morale.I can't understand why people wouldnt want their creations dispersed amongst the public,so they can enjoy playing them just as much as the layout designers enjoyed creating them,lets face it,it's always been the same,secrecy and cliquey,marred with greed and backstabbing as far back as i can remember,take the small ammount of peeps who had the tools to create layouts and noone else was allowed them,only due to a hacked 9.4 it would possibly still be the same.all i can say is thank god the actual fruit machine companies have not got the same attitudes as I can see here.I thought this scene wasnt about money but it seems to me thats exactly what its become,im bloody damn well saddened by it.

If you look carefully enough on the net you can find many many layouts for a small fee,don't get me wrong i dont agree with it,but i feel by coveting layouts like gold dust is just damaging to the scene and thats my opinion and im sticking to it

All i can say is thankyou first off to the fruit machine companies for giving me so much enjoyment over the years,without them none of us would be here now,FACT!,Do you see them charging us for the use of their copyrighted roms, graphics and technology of which some designer created in the first place NO!!!,reguardless of how you get about the legalities,I understand websites like this need income especially if the owners are not exactly rolling in it.

Im sorry but the greed is really shining through instead of the love of the scene which should really be foremost!!!

Good on you fruitnutter for trying to do something positive for the scene I appreciated it mate and I'm not out to make a fast buck either,you can all take that however you like.

Some things never change do they?

Unbelievable!!!

I also note there are no real tutorials to help new users to start creating and enjoying just as you do Why?

think about it?

 

Hiya Bungle,

 

Thanks for your kind comments, my intentions WERE good, regardless of how they have been taken. I made some mistakes, but hopefully that can be changed and with some help, can make a program which DOES help everyone.

 

I, like you, was of the thinking that I'd want my creations to be as widespread and used as possible. This doesn't appear to be the case with most of the members here. That's fine, it is their work, so they should rightly have the final say as to how it gets spread about.

 

Also, i appreciated that you gave the software a go, and liked what you saw. Thank you for that

Edited by fruitnutter, 06 October 2018 - 12:00 PM.

[fruitnutter]

No layout creators have asked for money and you can come here and desert island and download for FREE what pisses people off is that layouts take time to create  and wizards time and effort in keep updating FME with NO CASH exchanged then there sites that do cost money to run and with the generous of people donating (If they wish) help towards this. 

In my eyes this keeps people away from the site. It is a good tool that would be useful in/on a forum but not like that.

 

I had a thought the other day of cause there are members over at mecca the own some really nice gems which we dont have in FME land paying for photos of them and along as the roms are available everyones a winner but wheres the money coming from??? Out of funds made by people yet again who have a love for the scene. Just to be taken without as much as a thanks.

 

That was my initial idea... to gather all the gems together (and credit the appropriate authors respectfully). For reasons that I didn't foresee, some creators don't think that it is a good idea. I can't argue with that, I haven't made any layouts myself, but as I understand it many hours, and painstaking work, go into making each one.

 

Keeping people away from the site was not my intention, at all.

[fruitnutter]

ahhh you mean a closed scene,sorry but i'll have to agree to disagree,its meant to be about sharing the very thing we love with others not hiding away in the shadows being greedy,in that case what would be the point?

 

A closed scene is not a good idea at all. It creates anger and frustration.

 

I'll admit, there has been a time where I've had something that a lot of people wanted, and I didn't share it. That was wrong of me. In my defense, it cost a lot of money. However, i didn't play the situation well. We live and learn. No one is perfect.

[Pook]

I was going to say a similar solution, we all agree that navigation and download of layouts is a mess, that's not even taking emulator compatibility into account.

Evolving your program to point to the download/release thread is a great compromise. Sites still get the traffic and new punters have an easier journey. I'm more than happy for my work to be accessible in this format.

But why the cloak and dagger? People aren't stupid and it just breeds mistrust. We are all adults and I'd like to think we can handle an adult discussion.

[fruitnutter]

Nice idea from Fruitnutter there but it needed thinking through a bit more.  Cannot ever fault the enthusiasm though.  A lot of members contribute nothing at all so credit for trying to offer something useful to people

 

I still think the FME scene needs a nice big database as a handy reference-point where people can go and look up a game and find out info on it, pictures, whether a layout has been done and who by, and what site(s) it is hosted at and what version of MFME it runs on.  There could be other stuff like saved RAM files and so on added as well.

 

For a lot of people it's just really cumbersome now trawling through loads of sites trying to find something.  I remember Ross was doing FMEdb but it ground to a halt unfortunately.  We need something like this and people need to get behind it and populate it.  People will still have to come here or elsewhere to download in the end anyway.  No layouts or ROMs would be hosted, just information.

 

That is what the scene needs right now, information all in one place.

 

You've just hit the nail on the head SteveDude! After the initial roasting I got (maybe rightly so, who knows) I also thought that maybe information in one place was what was needed in the program, and a link to the place to download the actual Layout itself, which is where the creator has authorised it to be downloaded from.

 

As previously explained, I had this idea a week or 10 days ago, and got a bit excited about it thinking it would be really helpful. I guess I didn't think it through completely, which was a shame.

 

Thank you for the kind words on enthusiasm. I was, and am, enthusiastic about fruit machine emulation and whilst I can't create layouts (I don't have the knowledge, or the patience I imagine) I'd like to give back to a community that has given me a lot of fun via the emulator and amazing layouts that people here create. They really are fantastic!

[vectra666]

Anyway, moving forward, my idea would be to maintain the software, but instead of allowing downloads directly through the software (which does cost me money, via bandwidth, by the way), what could happen is that someone clicks on "download" and they get directed to the relevant download page on the fruit-emu site? That way, the site gets visitors, and the software helps by keeping everything in one place.

 

Effectively, someone uses the software to find the layout or resources that they are looking for, and then gets redirected to the relevant forum that the author of that work has uploaded to.

 

What do you creators think about this idea?

we have a system on here already to find the relevant machine you require, its called the search bar via downloads, although as said it needs updating to accommodate under four letter searches   like pac man

[fruitnutter]

It was a rushed uncommunicated project that has become derailed. The idea of circumventing the emulation sites for downloads was the first failure.

Nothing will be gained from software that enables anyone to take from these sites without such as a hello, thank you or goodbye. How will this keep the scene moving forward?

Maybe something can be incorporated into the sites security to stop software such as this enabling mass downloads etc without joining .

If the hosting sites and forums are not around, the scene dies or ends up going (back) underground which will be no benefit to anyone just taking their first steps into FME.

 

Yes, as previously stated, from inception of the idea to first release was about 4 days. I got excited thinking wow, everyone will love this as it makes things so easy. For reasons that I've come to learn, this wasn't the good idea that I thought it was. I thought that I was saving this site some bandwidth costs. What in reality it was doing was taking people away from the site - not good.

 

The software doesn't download from this site, it downloads directly from my own hosted server.

 

I had coded in some features such as the necessity to log in before download, and only having a number of downloads available before being sent to fruit-emu to register, donate, and download more. This feature came too late.

Not got a clue what the program is not do I need to? I upload my layouts to here,dad's and desert island fruits. That's the way I wish it to stay so please don't host my layouts through your program I to don't agree with the being forced to pay for layouts. No where does it say on this site if you donate you can download more layouts,the point of the extra downloads from.donating is a thank you from the site for supporting it.

 

Hi there, I won't be hosting ANYONES layouts on the software, as it appears to not be such a great idea for reasons explained to me, so you don't need to worry

[fruitnutter]

 

Like Pook said, HOMEWORK.  The guy has been around the scene long enough (under a different nickname) to know what the 'score' is.  I'm fairly sure he was aware of the possible outcome of this.  I mean even Wizard posted a 'is it okay if I release a new emulator...' type thread before he did it.  Would it have been good form to post this tool as a WIP first to gauge response.. I think so.

 

Same secrecy, cliquey backstabbing etc etc... you know why?  Because people like yourself and fruitnutter etc turn up back here with new nicknames too 'afraid' of your past to admit who you really are then 'demand' we follow your tune.

 

....that is what I'm damn well saddened by.

 

In all honesty I think this is a bit out of order.

 

I'm not scared of any past. Sometimes people have reasons for doing things, and perhaps that could be respected a bit more.

 

Also, where did I demand anyone at all do anything?

 

I don't think I should apologise for attempting to better the scene and make a contribution of my own. Yes, it turned out to be unwanted, so I disabled it. I would say that shows that I listen to general consensus and attempt to learn.

 

Can you not see why someone might think "I tried to do something helpful (however misguided), and got a load of shit back for it, so f*** 'em!"?

[Reg]

I had coded in some features such as the necessity to log in before download, and only having a number of downloads available before being sent to fruit-emu to register, donate, and download more. This feature came too late.

 

Please do not link any of my stuff.

 

The donation system that you talk of will support here which is great for here - but you know what - why should the work that I do support another site if people donate to here through your program on a basis that my work supports another site ?

 

100% of the money raised goes into DIF and is used for DIF.  We've barely broken even to last year - but hell we try.

 

I will not allow you to use layouts that I have done that helps fund anything but DIF as these sites don't magically pay for themselves.

 

I also hope you check in with DAD to be sure he is ok with this ?

Edited by Reg, 06 October 2018 - 12:29 PM.

[fruitnutter]

we have a system on here already to find the relevant machine you require, its called the search bar via downloads, although as said it needs updating to accommodate under four letter searches   like pac man

 

Lets imagine, for a moment, that someone thinks "Ah, I used to play a game - I'm damned if I can remember what it's called though". How can they search for that? At least with my program they could click through the machines until they saw a picture of a machine and "Bingo! THAT'S what I've been looking for!!!".

[FruitEMU]

we have a system on here already to find the relevant machine you require, its called the search bar via downloads, although as said it needs updating to accommodate under four letter searches   like pac man

Just make up the minimum letter requirement using one or more asterisks.

For instance, searching for pac* or man* will both return suitable results.

Not an ideal solution but it works for the time being.