43 replies to this topic

[aaamusements]

Just met with a pubco general manager and she said with one supplier of machines, they can tell if the machine is on - and level of the hoppers?, even with analogue machines - is this true do you think?

Yes, if they have a reporting system capturing data from the machines and sending it over the Internet in real time. MIDAS or suchlike.

[phattbloke]

Just met with a pubco general manager and she said with one supplier of machines, they can tell if the machine is on - and level of the hoppers?, even with analogue machines - is this true do you think?

Of course... This is something that is just more and more normal nowadays. The issue is the pub companies want flat profiles but also want a the high jackpot to stake ratio and a low RTP...

Realistically you need a 90%+ RTP to make a game play will wherever it is... And until the pub companies realise this and risk it, nothing will ever change... And course because test periods are short the extra RTP will only ever cause a lies in revenue in the short term

Edited by phattbloke, 03 August 2017 - 08:06 PM.

[gemini17]

I agree. No. Let's not get too misty eyed about the past, it wasn't that great. However, probably better than what we have now!!!!

Real interesting topic Uptown 47.

The golden era of Amusement arcades was during the 80's-90's with a slight peak 90's-2000

I was raised in Yorkshire and my home town was Leeds-for those of you who are around my age group 35-45 and you knew of the area 20-25 years ago.

You will certainly recall the center of Leeds was more like the sea front of Blackpool!

Every corner you turned there was an amusement arcade. I reckon there were 30 arcades if not more.

And the industry was so lucrative not just because of the fantastic slots that were around at the time but because the arcades invested in people and knew how to lure the crowds in. With promotions galore,drinks and snacks on offer(and in some cases meals to order!),the arcades then had gamblers in the palms of their hands.

Now we live in a virtual online world and the going out and socializing has become staying put in our homes.

We could all blame the modern slot for an arcades demise but this is far from reality.

True the mix of slots on offer certainly does not have the appeal it once had to many but the demise of the entertainment industry on the street spans far wider than the local arcade.

Pubs,clubs,night clubs,casinos and bingo halls are dying across the country-bookmakers too are also falling by the wayside as result of there passion with the online market.

It is so easy to top up on an online website with your debit,credit or bank account detail so why venture out to gambol?

And there in that single statement is one of the main factors as to why the arcade industry is on it's knees.

Aside the very fact that there is not the same money around that there was 10-30 years ago.

 

In answer to the original poster,we will sadly never have the golden era of arcades back.

We do though have many of the slots preserved through the many emus,layout creators and designers who continue to recreate slots from the past that I never thought I would ever have the pleasure of playing again.

So I more than echo Vectra's points and here's to many more years of fruit machine emulation.

 

Sadly how I see things(in living just a stones throw from Blackpool),without major investment and legislation changes many arcades will fold over the next couple of years .

I have friends here who don't think they will last out the coming year and that is very sad to hear.

But then in the current climate who would really want to buy or invest in an amusement arcade?

 

Jay

[gemini17]

They opened a new arcade near me recently and i went in for a mooch , very rarely do i play the machines nowdays ....

 

Walked about pointing at every machine , shit , shit , shit , shit , hmmm shit but worth playing ... shit , shit...

 

So out of about 30 machines , 2 were half decent .. Im kinda glad in a way that all they bring out is crap these days , it keeps me out the arcades.

 

The only time i play machines these days are on a trip to the coast , and even then its usually full of Party Times with odd hi-tech'er thrown in thats worth a shot.

Great to see you on the emu Todd.

Hope your well.

I pick up on your point over Party times.

They along with other Astra titles are still such popular slots-but sadly(a point I failed to mention in my previous post) Astra have kicked the golden era of slots in to touch and discarded them to the local Tip! Yet they are a huge part of what is keeping some of the arcade industry alive!

Whether they are 5p/10p or 25p/30p play they are still so popular with players around the country-yet sadly parts for these slots are now few and far between.

Especially for Bullion Bars and my all time fav slot-Hoakey Coakey.

Boy would I so love to have a set of them in my garage-I real would never see the light of day. lol

 

Jay

[vectra666]

Yes gemini you have got the nail on the head, online gambling certainly has taken over, I for one regularly gamble online of which of course 25years ago was just a sci-fi fantasy, who'd of thought back in '93' we'd be all staying at home drinking beer and betting via a computer all we had back then was a BBC acorn pc even gaming was 8-bit Sega mega drives lol.
Facebook, streaming, surfing the net my god it's seams we've had it all our lives yet it's relatively new (post 2000…) back in those days we even had to talk to one other face to face or use a landline phone (for the young ones amongst us, it's a telephone on a wall lol) texts what's that isn't that some type of writing on paper lol.
Let's imagine what another 20years in the future will be like.
They're be no more arcades, bookies, bingo halls will be destined to seaside places, most pubs will be coffee shops, maybe alcohol will disappear from them too, (A pint of beer they'll say, what's that!!). To get to the seaside you'll need to stop three times to "charge" your electric car up.
Shops will disappear from the high street due to everyone staying in and shopping online (which I do now regularly due to its easier and less stressful).
Maybe slightly off topic, but what do you all think it'll be like in 20-25years time! Will the remaining machines all be on £1000jp £5 a pop!!! Or will they all die out like the dodo.
I remember the song video killed the radio star. Very similar too this topic.

[edwardb]

Just met with a pubco general manager and she said with one supplier of machines, they can tell if the machine is on - and level of the hoppers?, even with analogue machines - is this true do you think?

 

Yeah I can believe that. After all, the machine just has to send some data to a back-office system and then over the internet. Piece of cake.

On FOBTs which are all networked, the operator can get live data on which games are being played, amounts staked and won, fault reports, etc etc. All useful and interesting info if like me, you love stats. Always love seeing how the weather affects what and where people play! Rainy day, everyone's playing, warm sunny day, everyone's in a beer garden.......

[edwardb]

Maybe slightly off topic, but what do you all think it'll be like in 20-25years time! 

 

I suspect there will be no machines aside from those in casinos, which I assume will be more common in the UK by that time. The days of "furniture removal" of AWPs is ending as people move to server based systems (such as Novomatic and Blueprints pub offerings) and I think we will see those die off and become 99% online.

[gemini17]

Yes gemini you have got the nail on the head, online gambling certainly has taken over, I for one regularly gamble online of which of course 25years ago was just a sci-fi fantasy, who'd of thought back in '93' we'd be all staying at home drinking beer and betting via a computer all we had back then was a BBC acorn pc even gaming was 8-bit Sega mega drives lol.
Facebook, streaming, surfing the net my god it's seams we've had it all our lives yet it's relatively new (post 2000…) back in those days we even had to talk to one other face to face or use a landline phone (for the young ones amongst us, it's a telephone on a wall lol) texts what's that isn't that some type of writing on paper lol.
Let's imagine what another 20years in the future will be like.
They're be no more arcades, bookies, bingo halls will be destined to seaside places, most pubs will be coffee shops, maybe alcohol will disappear from them too, (A pint of beer they'll say, what's that!!). To get to the seaside you'll need to stop three times to "charge" your electric car up.
Shops will disappear from the high street due to everyone staying in and shopping online (which I do now regularly due to its easier and less stressful).
Maybe slightly off topic, but what do you all think it'll be like in 20-25years time! Will the remaining machines all be on £1000jp £5 a pop!!! Or will they all die out like the dodo.
I remember the song video killed the radio star. Very similar too this topic.

I know there is a consultation(between the authorities,gaming board and gov) taking place re the excessive stake's on the FOBT's.

So hopefully the £50/£100 bets to achieve £500 will be gone asp in the Autumn.

I have also heard that the £2 stake could be lanced,yet again.

But it is too little too late in my opinion as millions of people have been sucked into these vile machines and have in some cases lost there family,homes and jobs through gambling excessive amounts on these deadly machines.

All I see a high street full of is £lands and charity shops -and you notice too that more and more high street chains are getting rid of cashiers and replacing them with self service tills.

Will we be needed at all in 20/25 years time!

 

Jay

[uptown47]

All I see a high street full of is £lands and charity shops -and you notice too that more and more high street chains are getting rid of cashiers and replacing them with self service tills.

Will we be needed at all in 20/25 years time!

 

Jay

 

Interesting that you say that Jay.... Me and The Leader of the Opposition recently stayed in a Premier Inn (Livingstone) and, when we arrived, there was just a desk and a scanner. You had to scan your email barcode and machine printed out your room card. It was a glimpse into a dystopian future that I didn't like.

 

There was still a lady there making sure people knew how to use the scanner and what to do but they'll be gone in a year or two when everyone is familiar with the system.

 

The world isn't changing for the better as far as I'm concerned (or maybe I'm just getting old and cynical)?

 

John

[gemini17]

 

Interesting that you say that Jay.... Me and The Leader of the Opposition recently stayed in a Premier Inn (Livingstone) and, when we arrived, there was just a desk and a scanner. You had to scan your email barcode and machine printed out your room card. It was a glimpse into a dystopian future that I didn't like.

 

There was still a lady there making sure people knew how to use the scanner and what to do but they'll be gone in a year or two when everyone is familiar with the system.

 

The world isn't changing for the better as far as I'm concerned (or maybe I'm just getting old and cynical)?

 

John

Hi John

 

Yes have witnessed the same thing in a similar chain.

It is sadly more than a dip of the toe into the future.

And on the grapevine the big supermarket leaders(Morrisons,Asda and Tesco) are all in discussion to phase out all cashier and till operatives.

So as to make all the stores self service!!

We will be getting greeted by a robot soon at the door with a robot security guard  

What a scary thought and possible future vision!

 

 

Jay

[Guitar]

But its a great time to be in the vending service repair industry.

[uptown47]

But its a great time to be in the vending service repair industry.

 

Ha ha! Yep, there'll always be a need for people that can fix these things.... (until they completely take over and start building their own 'repair drones' and then 'anti human attack drones' and then 'human harvesters' that capture thousands of people in large metal baskets and then take them to a special interrogation unit just on the off chance one of them knows the emptier for DOND - Break the Bank....)

 

Maybe the last bit won't happen but the first bit is almost guaranteed! 

[aaamusements]

You'll never get rid of real people, because users and customers will always manage to break the automatic system.

 

About 1 time in every 10 can I manage to negotiate the self-service checkout without it going into "Call Attendant" mode. My mother broke the biometric passport machine, and the parking payment machines at the hospital in which I work are 50% broken at all times.

 

As above - the only way to make machines completely resilient is to perfect Artificial Intelligence, and at that point we'll all be living underground, fearful of the sound of German Shepherd dogs at the door alerting us to the impending visit from Arnold Schwarzenegger. So there will be bigger things to worry about than what percentage the fruit machine is set to.

[gemini17]

You'll never get rid of real people, because users and customers will always manage to break the automatic system.

 

About 1 time in every 10 can I manage to negotiate the self-service checkout without it going into "Call Attendant" mode. My mother broke the biometric passport machine, and the parking payment machines at the hospital in which I work are 50% broken at all times.

 

As above - the only way to make machines completely resilient is to perfect Artificial Intelligence, and at that point we'll all be living underground, fearful of the sound of German Shepherd dogs at the door alerting us to the impending visit from Arnold Schwarzenegger. So there will be bigger things to worry about than what percentage the fruit machine is set to.

I real hope not re-your opening point.

Yet sadly im seeing the drive towards a limited human workforce in supermarkets ,becoming more noticeable -especially in the £shops.

I never got into shopping online-because I like to see what produce im buying. But with our current situation changing over the last month,and now not having a car.

I do think it will be something we take advantage of in the future.

 

Jay

[hold the bells]

Yet sadly im seeing the drive towards a limited human workforce in supermarkets 

 

 

I either use online shopping or if I go to the supermarket I use the self scan, surprised how little this is still used given how easy it is vs queuing on the normal tills.

 

Guess a lot of people still don't like it.

 

As for fruit machines, they will never go back, suspect some watered down "sanctions" on the bookies but doubt stakes or prizes will change much.

 

The UK is a mess for stake vs JP, even the casinos are messed up. Most Novamatics pay 1000 X stake as a JP, most of them in the UK are 2000 X stake so god knows what that does to the game.

Edited by hold the bells, 06 August 2017 - 05:48 PM.

[wearecity]

I thought I'd have a trip to Hastings, as they still have a few arcades on the front and haven't been for years.

I've always loved walking around in them over the years, but this was a complete waste of time.

Just the usual ticket machines, £5 10p plays with broken lamps galore and a small dodgy looking £500 area, in all 3 of them.

Only things of note, were modern day £5 Line Ups and another £5 lotech machine that used to be in nobles by the dozen years ago, gold in colour with about 7 different winning combinations.

Shoved £8 change in several £5 machines, got my money back and left completely bored and now making the 2.5 hour trip home.

In the past, I've not minded the £5 10ps because you can get a run for your money. But now most of the downgraded machines are available on the emulator at bigger stakes, any interest in playing them just wasn't there at all.

On my way home it's dawned on me that there is a Mr P's on route at Tonbridge now. I should have got off the train and visited.

[chloemarietaylor]

Being olden enough to remember the machines from the very early 80's this is a topic I have often discussed with a friend of mine. Both of us stopped playing fruit machines around 1998 time. Around the time jackpots were pushed up to £15. Living in seaside towns I had (against my parents orders) played fruit machines since I was about 8 though in them days I was more interested in the video games. I never really played the fruits machines regularly until I was a bit older around 1990 which is probably the 'golden era' for many of us here. Barcrest, Maygay and JPM were all on top form, there were new and unique games coming out all the time with interesting licenses and fun new mechanics to learn and pit your wits and reactions against. There was a nice spread of stakes, ranging from the 2p - £2.40 up to 20p - £10 and £20 in your pocket could last you all afternoon barring extreme bad luck.

 

Discussing this with my friend we noticed a change in the new machines, they bumped the jackpot up yes which is always going to create an environment where the machines needs longer to save up to pay the jackpot (yes I know this is not how it works but go with the analogy), but jackpots are the bit that creates interest from people around, the self-advertising feature of all machines, hence the fanfare. To increase the frequency of the jackpots as much as they could they introduced the (then) £4 block, basically you could get no win higher than £4 until it was ready to pay the jackpot. When it was ready it either gifted you the 'red' board or it just dropped it in on the reels. There was no challenge any more, you were either deliberately tricked into gambling away the £4, the dreaded 10 lower 11 (life gone) 11 lower 12 scenario or you just bought yourself a half dozen extra credits. Boring...

 

Then there was the lack of interesting new mechanics, every machine seemed to be a clone of each other, hundreds of machines but only a dozen ideas. There have always been clones but this was it to another level.

 

As someone mentioned further up, it was a perfect storm of several things... higher jackpot / higher stake reducing the win frequency and increasing the play cost, immediately turning off most casual players, you can loose £10 in a flash without even a feature or win. Lack of innovation, I guess there is only so many things you can do with a fruit machine but it just seemed to me that there wasn't the originality any more, if a machine was original it was quickly cloned to death. Lazy programming, speaking as a computer scientist myself, there were many ways they could have smoothed out the game experience but the £4 block was just incredibly lazy and ineffective. What's the point of all them features if they are all hobbled and not used to give the jackpot.

 

My friend basically agreed with all these points and we were both glad in a way, I haven't put money in a fruit machine in over a decade and my 'hobby' no longer drains me of a (then) £1000+ a year. Part of me wants to see the industry return to its roots, but the other part hopes they don't as while the machines are as they are now I will never return except through emulation.

[uptown47]

Great points there and very well made. Enjoyed reading that

[I have finished]

Well, IMO no, but if you have MFME 6, yes. I have been a good young man and have stuck to my resolution. Went to visit my local and unfortunately they got rid of Magic 7 (non-concept) which I would love to see emulated, so had to go on Magic 10 instead. Can't stand the screeny type machines as I can't see them and no speech can read out from a touchscreen on the booky's computer system. So I take my lappy with me wherever I go with my old favourites of yesteryear, and not waisting money!

[nails]

well, the bookies are set to go back on 2 quid spins.

 

Not quite 10p play 4 pound jackpot, but a damn sight nearer than 100 quid spins.

 

 

* if BACTA members really think that roulette players will migrate back to AGC sites, their very much mistaken. On-line still has real wheels and huge stakes.