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Thoughts on Fixed Odds Betting Terminals


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#1 robinhood75

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:20 PM

This is a good friend of mine who has been campaigning now for some years to get these FOBTs out of the shops or at least reducing the maximum stake.

He has done several intervies with Eamon Holmes and has just done one for channel 4. He has just finished another one with it. He is talking to the government Inc Jeremy Corbyn and has asked me as a compulsive gambler to also get involved.

What are the chances of any of this making any difference? I can't see it will have much of an impact.

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#2 TommyC

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:34 PM

The government will just look away,the amount of tax they receive from these is too much to get rid of em. My view is they should never have had these in betting shops in the first place.
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#3 evo1

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:21 PM

I would like to know where mr average gets there money from to spend allday on these things,as my weekly wage wouldn't last 1 minute.Spoke to a manager in a family arcade on a seaside trip and he says its killing them off?? So just imagine going to the seaside in ten years to see theres no arcades is it possible 



#4 robinhood75

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:22 PM

The government will just look away,the amount of tax they receive from these is too much to get rid of em. My view is they should never have had these in betting shops in the first place.


The David James bookies was a place I went to a lot. He says in the video that if they took away the machines he would be forced to close down but he has had that shop for well over 30 years so how did they cope before they came out. Surly it would just be back to how it was just bang them all on £100 jackpots with £1 stake job done.
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#5 evo1

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:37 PM

The David James bookies was a place I went to a lot. He says in the video that if they took away the machines he would be forced to close down but he has had that shop for well over 30 years so how did they cope before they came out. Surly it would just be back to how it was just bang them all on £100 jackpots with £1 stake job done.

Ya when he said he would have 4 people out of a job! how many people have lost jobs,homes,family's and even there, life! due to these



#6 thecodfather

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:47 PM

The gaming industry has changed beyond all recognition since many of us were gambling. We would be able to play pretty much all day for a ton and sometimes made a profit. £100 lasts a few minutes today in many places. The FOBT’s have been a massive revenue earner for most bookies, I think all of them make most of their profit from them.

We can now bet on apps whenever we want, create whatever bet we want. How are bookies going to compete with that? Sadly they are not which is why the FOBT’s are so important to them. Luckily for me I have never played one. I never will and I do feel that there are less and less people prepared to spunk a ton in something for a few minutes entertainment.

We have already had the debate about the good old days. They really are a long distant memory and while governments earn so much tax revenue from them, they are going nowhere. Stakes may be lowered but that is as far as it will go.
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#7 aaamusements

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:49 PM

I'm against them, I have been for years - however I do have to pose the question:

In that same bookmaker I can put thousands of pounds, in one go, on a horse.

What's the difference?

#8 pbb

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:44 PM

Hi, I currently manage a bookies, If the minimum stake goes down to £2 then roughly half the bookies in the UK will close, average 4/5 people per shop will lose their jobs, smaller independants will not be able to compete with Hills, Ladbrokes etc.Before the FOBT's bookies used to take bets on horse racing, football  etc, internet betting has destroyed that, most people have apps on their phone where you can place a bet, anytime, anywhere. Yes the bookies goy greedy, opening shops all other, but that does not help the staff that may lose thier jobs.

 

Possibly max stake of £20 could work, I dont know, but how many peoples lives are also destroyed by, drugs, drinking, Bingo sites, Bingo venues, casino's, online casino's, arcades? I honestly don't have the answer, I hate seeing people lose all their money, and we try to intervene where we can.

 

Sorry if long winded but, just thought I would have my 2p's worth, Oh and I am a gambler myself, On the fruities for which I have lost a lot but have learned to control it.

 

Thanks



#9 wearecity

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:20 PM

The bookies do themselves no favours, when past programmes about gambling addiction to FOBT have been broadcast and most bookies either give a generic quote and/or refuse to take part in any discussion on the matter of FOBT's.

 

They claim to care about people, but all these messages on FOBT screens and leaflets, have no effect on an addict, an addict simply doesn't care. Self exclusion is also not easy or indeed practical with the amount of bookies available.

 

Also, they get around restrictions, such as the maximum allowed on a spin, by offering super spins at 5 for £20 - £50.

 

Having said that, as an ex addict on slots, I do realise that you can only really help yourself, with any addiction, you have to make the decision to quit or at least reduce whatever addiction you have.

 

Perhaps stakes of no more than £1 a spin on slots, no more than £2 a hand on cards and no more than £5 on roulette would be a start, at least it would take you much longer to lose. You could still potentially win £500 from a spin.


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#10 gemini17

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:23 PM

This is a good friend of mine who has been campaigning now for some years to get these FOBTs out of the shops or at least reducing the maximum stake.

He has done several intervies with Eamon Holmes and has just done one for channel 4. He has just finished another one with it. He is talking to the government Inc Jeremy Corbyn and has asked me as a compulsive gambler to also get involved.

What are the chances of any of this making any difference? I can't see it will have much of an impact.

https://www.channel4...tting-crackdown
Sorry for all spelling mistakes my fingers are too fat for my phone.

Firstly good on your mate and his continued determination to tackle the vile industry with its deadly FOBT slot and roulette machines.

In the month of October there is to be a government intervention into this with talks taking place into reducing the max stake on any slot(across the gaming industry) to £2.

No gaming industry should ever have been allowed to let a player gambol £100 to win but 5x there stake/prize money-beyond ludicrous. :nah:

I sense some very big changes ahead.

Yet more alarming I must also add here that we are the only country in the world that allows children to gambol.

And this in my opinion also needs to be tackled head on.

This is where most addiction begins and is where most of the problems start.

Yet up and down the country children can gambol on category D slots in numerous venues-how sad we are as a nation to have allowed this to happen.!!

And it beggers believe to think what morons work in the gov departments,let alone the uk gaming board to allow this to continue to happen.

 

Jay



#11 gemini17

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:33 PM

Hi, I currently manage a bookies, If the minimum stake goes down to £2 then roughly half the bookies in the UK will close, average 4/5 people per shop will lose their jobs, smaller independants will not be able to compete with Hills, Ladbrokes etc.Before the FOBT's bookies used to take bets on horse racing, football  etc, internet betting has destroyed that, most people have apps on their phone where you can place a bet, anytime, anywhere. Yes the bookies goy greedy, opening shops all other, but that does not help the staff that may lose thier jobs.

 

Possibly max stake of £20 could work, I dont know, but how many peoples lives are also destroyed by, drugs, drinking, Bingo sites, Bingo venues, casino's, online casino's, arcades? I honestly don't have the answer, I hate seeing people lose all their money, and we try to intervene where we can.

 

Sorry if long winded but, just thought I would have my 2p's worth, Oh and I am a gambler myself, On the fruities for which I have lost a lot but have learned to control it.

 

Thanks

The majority of bookmakers got wind of the new legislation talks and started to take steps months ago.

Coupled with the economy and the lack of money circulating over the last 5 years.

Up and down the country bookmakers are closing down.

In Blackpool and Fylde coast area there were a staggering 250 W.hills!(Mind blowing)-there are but half now.

Same goes for Ladbrokes too.

No disrespect to you pbb but I would never consider(in todays economy) a bookmakers been a safe job.

Nor would I see that with any venue that houses gaming machines.

Bingo halls,wmc clubs,pubs and amusement arcades have all fell by the wayside in a ever changing country and world.

And the greatest factor by a mile is the online gaming industry-in which many bookmakers also make huge profits from.

 

If I were you I know I would be looking for alternative employment.

 

Jay



#12 gemini17

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:43 PM

The bookies do themselves no favours, when past programmes about gambling addiction to FOBT have been broadcast and most bookies either give a generic quote and/or refuse to take part in any discussion on the matter of FOBT's.

 

They claim to care about people, but all these messages on FOBT screens and leaflets, have no effect on an addict, an addict simply doesn't care. Self exclusion is also not easy or indeed practical with the amount of bookies available.

 

Also, they get around restrictions, such as the maximum allowed on a spin, by offering super spins at 5 for £20 - £50.

 

Having said that, as an ex addict on slots, I do realise that you can only really help yourself, with any addiction, you have to make the decision to quit or at least reduce whatever addiction you have.

 

Perhaps stakes of no more than £1 a spin on slots, no more than £2 a hand on cards and no more than £5 on roulette would be a start, at least it would take you much longer to lose. You could still potentially win £500 from a spin.

I do have respect though for those who work in gaming venues when it comes to challenging individuals with suspected addictions/problem gambling.

As they are not trained counselors and many if not all are on basic minimum pay yet are expected to do (what in practice) should be a managers roll or someone who is trained to give counselling over gambling problems.

Set the scene of an irate customer who has lost hi/her wage in a FOBT is about to launch a chair through the terminal and is becoming verbally and physically abusive-would any of us in a staff roll feel safe in approaching them over there problem gambling :confused: ??

I appreciate its an extreme scenario I descibe, but sadly many similar situations have arisen in gambling venues and the staff are not trained to deal with those situations.

So in fairness the many posters displayed(re tackling problem gambling) are far from giving full clarity over the problem.

 

Jay



#13 gemini17

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:46 PM

The government will just look away,the amount of tax they receive from these is too much to get rid of em. My view is they should never have had these in betting shops in the first place.

I agree mate they have more than made there pound of flesh out of innocent victims of these vile units.

Yet there are huge changes ahead and I am confident that common sense will prevail eventually.

But sadly how many billions have been lost to get to this conclusion!!??

 

Jay



#14 nails

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 07:17 AM

The David James bookies was a place I went to a lot. He says in the video that if they took away the machines he would be forced to close down but he has had that shop for well over 30 years so how did they cope before they came out. Surly it would just be back to how it was just bang them all on £100 jackpots with £1 stake job done.

Sadly not everything is black and white.

 

Like you say, this guy has been there for over 30 years, but 30 years ago they didnt have betfair, online casinos etc.

 

Betfair changed everything, you could become the bookmaker or the punter, and since your competing against others, the prices/odds are far better online. Imagine for one second that you have a tip for a horse. Corals are offering 5/1, WH are offering 11/2 etc. but Betfair you can get 8/1. Its exactly this that has squeezed the bookies into a corner. Looking back the bookies forced the government to axe the taxation on bets (in favor of a flat levy), becasue otherwise they were going to move all their trade off-shore.

 

Now, some 20 years on from that, trading is so dire, that i support `some` of the bookies claims that FOBT machines are keeping them open. It however can only go so far. Maybe for this guy David James its 100% true, but to have a Corals/Laddys on every corner and claim they may have to close half is pure greediness on their part.

 

For my 2p's worth on the subject, to reduce to a £2 stake is nothing short of ridiculous. A £500 jackpot machine will now be capped at £72. The answer to me is a multi-tier answer, but i could see a £20 stake being feasible, (£13.80 on a number still an option) and i think in the interests of fair play, a similar mega stake option on the B3 arcade machines a very fair option. (this has been agreed by bacta as a cat. B5 £10 committed play stake)  

 

 

 

 

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#15 I have finished

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:41 PM

What's the difference between fixed odds betting terminals and fruit machines? please?



#16 Magz

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:30 PM

I'd be all in favour of a FOBT ban - I'd also ban all advertisement of gambling and hike the tax charges.

Removing the FOBT may well cause some bookies to go bust / be keeping bookies that would go bust open.

Sadly for them, the writing is on the wall anyway as the online FOBT style gambling offers better returns anyway so just as the online bookies have taken away that part of their trade, so will go the FOBT revenues as well...


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#17 spa

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:30 PM

Have to agree with Magz. If anyone ever wanted a punt, online has to be it. Average % payout at 96, comfy, smoke, beer, f*** it, even naked! If you set a daily, weekly and monthly limit they are really not too dangerous.

 

As for arcades, seaside mainly. Terrible. Used to love a punt but these days, na, don't really fancy winning some tickets to get some haribo to be honest. Where I live, Hunstanton, can see them being very dead out of season.



#18 barxfan

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:55 PM

Have to agree with Magz. If anyone ever wanted a punt, online has to be it. Average % payout at 96, comfy, smoke, beer, f*** it, even naked! If you set a daily, weekly and monthly limit they are really not too dangerous.

 

As for arcades, seaside mainly. Terrible. Used to love a punt but these days, na, don't really fancy winning some tickets to get some haribo to be honest. Where I live, Hunstanton, can see them being very dead out of season.

 

This.  The arcades have had their day due to greed and lowering %s, putting in raping Triple 7 cabinets, removing the best bits like the pie gamble and installing atrocities like Money Mad Mushrooms etc.

 

I used to live in arcades but haven't set foot in one for over a year.  I can play online at 8% higher RTP without some old bitch or suspicious staff watching me, drinking shit coffee and worrying about running out of notes.

 

Plus, you can play the high volatility games on low stakes with deposit limits, and win much more than in the physical world - I had 2.5k out of Danger High Voltage the other week on a 40p stake.  It's a no brainer.


Edited by barxfan, 03 October 2017 - 09:55 PM.


#19 nails

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:41 PM

What's the difference between fixed odds betting terminals and fruit machines? please?

a FOBT is a random machine where the result is drawn via satellite (typically). A typical roulette game is some 98% payout (based on covering every number and combination you will only ever win 98% of your money back. when you press start, a result is drawn via satellite - thus they are not compensated or out to cheat anybody - the odds are simply not stacked in your favor. even after thousands and thousands of pounds, they are still the same random machine.

 

fruit machine games however can still be played on a FOBT, though these are either random random, or random compensated. whilst these category C or B2/3 games are `ahem` random, they will eventually force a win upon you, and on a long term scale, make up their dictated 92% typical return.

 

 

* it has been mentioned that on-line casinos pay nearer 96% and therefore are better. The reality however is based of hundreds and millions of plays. It could possibly be thought in terms of the national lottery, just because they pay millions, and they pay out almost all the pool of money, it does not mean you have a better chance of winning. Vegas for example pays 98% typical.its only because they have thousands of players per day pressing that start button that the mere 2% they cream, actually equates to millions for the house every year.

 

eventually, the house gets every penny. Be that 90% or 98% payout.



#20 unclechicken

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 03:09 AM

I've never played one, never will. They seem to be like all gambling machines, the house wins anyway.






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