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Fruit Machines Inside Out: Compensation


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#121 Twostroker

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 08:45 PM

How does the jackpot frequency get determined and how does changing the frequency effect awards?

#122 edwardb

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 02:27 PM

How does the jackpot frequency get determined and how does changing the frequency effect awards?

Depends entirely upon how the jackpot is saved up for (if at all). Say you have a JP "pot" and you put 10% of your stake (after taking your payout % away) in. Well, divide the jackpot value by the amount you put in the pot per spin, and there's your jackpot frequency.....

 

But then we used to save up possibly multiple jackpots, or have multiple pots, one paying for jackpot + repeats, and/or single jackpots. There really are 101 ways to do it.

 

Also remember that if your main compensator/pot gets too high (owes the player money), you can drop in jackpots to bring the machine back towards even. 

 

Lo-tech games generally worked quite differently to hi-tech AWPs. Bar-X style games had many different pots to pay for wins of different sizes/streak/etc, whereas a pub AWP might have had just 2 pots, main and jackpot.

 

It all depends on the game and what you're trying to achieve.

 

 

Hope that helps......it might just confuse you more!



#123 Twostroker

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 02:10 PM

That does help a lot it's all good to know, it is confusing but I suppose it has to be to confuse the players psychologically?

I like old scorpion 4 clubbers, these seem fairly hard to 'work out' there's the jackpot frequency hi - lo switch on the main board. I can understand why an operator might what to change the frequency due to what environment the machine is in e.g. local club or holiday park.

I dont really understand how it works or the numbers they are aiming at. I suppose these machines are working there % and pots over thousands of pounds where as some easy mpu5's ive played award jackpot at the first opportunity.

I like all these machines for what they are so it's always good to learn more about them and how they actually work

#124 edwardb

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:11 PM

No, there's never any psychological reasoning behind compensating a game in one way or another. It's just experience, going off of games that were popular and games that flopped.

Most fruit machine industry stuff is trial and error - and a hell of a lot of error, at that.

 

The old BFM clubs were great, and from memory (I could be wrong) I think they used to have a lot of compensators ("pots") - I think when we did Pacman Club (copy of Club Crazy Fruits) at Mazooma it had 12 or so. Lots of pots for smaller wins and a few pots for the big ones.

 

We used to play thousands upon thousand of manual games on a machine, with millions (if not tens of millions) of simulated plays on the same code - you can run it on a PC at warp speed. Look at the numbers, see how the game is playing, and tweak accordingly.

 

That's the black art of gaming. Any old muppet can make a game hit the correct % payout, getting it to play well is quite another thing.........



#125 CMR777

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 12:40 AM

On the subject of emptiers, Super Multinudge was a classic case of a deliberate emptier. Programmed by MW (I won't put his full name here), of BWB Monte Carlo Or Bust and MAB Bar X fame.

 

Supercharged and Thunderbird were other classic examples.

 

ps. Hello Edward -- long time since we last spoke!

 

pps. This is my first post to a fruit machine forum since Arcadia back in 2004 !!!

 

-Smarter Than The Average Bear hahahahaha-



#126 nails

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:24 AM


 
:)
 
What would you like to know about next?
 

 

 

If all DOND clones are the same machine but different alpha messages etc.   how do cheats accidentaly get in there?

 

i think the answer blows open the subject of coders going bad.

 

* in regards to the part where `we all have a good laugh about backing`  thats 50/50 bollocks IMO. If i was playing a RED back in the day, no way would i play it if was empty, but a fully hopper gave me a 50/50 chance its full or topped up. also hearing a £1 thud on a crazy amount of coins in the cash box was also a good pointer.  



#127 fuzion

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 09:37 PM

Yeah a genuine drop onto a decent clash of coins is always a good way to tell if it's refloat day or not :)

 

....well that and every other machine dropping.

 

J


Edited by fuzion, 20 June 2018 - 09:37 PM.

// stumblin' in the neon groves


#128 fuzion

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 09:39 PM

I've done it with a Grand Golden Game back in the day, tried one it was dropping...  tried the others just to make sure and of course all 3 are dropping down the back...    this was late afternoon as well so obviously they'd had no action. 

 

J


// stumblin' in the neon groves


#129 mrrix

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 12:19 PM

Really good thread! I would love someone to take one of these emulations, tweak it and leave us an easter egg to find! Maybe just a clue every week until someone finds it!



#130 edwardb

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 02:55 PM

On the subject of emptiers, Super Multinudge was a classic case of a deliberate emptier. Programmed by MW (I won't put his full name here), of BWB Monte Carlo Or Bust and MAB Bar X fame.

 

Supercharged and Thunderbird were other classic examples.

 

ps. Hello Edward -- long time since we last spoke!

 

pps. This is my first post to a fruit machine forum since Arcadia back in 2004 !!!

 

-Smarter Than The Average Bear hahahahaha-

 

Hello - long time!!

 

MW yes I know who you mean - not seen him for ages - is he still kicking around the industry?

 

 

 

 
:)
 
What would you like to know about next?
 

 

 

If all DOND clones are the same machine but different alpha messages etc.   how do cheats accidentaly get in there?

 

i think the answer blows open the subject of coders going bad.

 

* in regards to the part where `we all have a good laugh about backing`  thats 50/50 bollocks IMO. If i was playing a RED back in the day, no way would i play it if was empty, but a fully hopper gave me a 50/50 chance its full or topped up. also hearing a £1 thud on a crazy amount of coins in the cash box was also a good pointer.  

 

 

 

DOND clones, cheats etc probably put in the original game, and commented out for that game - then put in the clone for testing purpose and they forgot to remove/disable it before release.

I've seen some very sloppy coding. I always used to surround my test code with an #ifdef, e.g.

 

#if (RELEASE==0)
// Test code here..

if (read_switch(CANCEL))

{

    DoSomething();

}

#endif

 

Meaning that any test code cannot be in the final build...but others weren't so cautious. I never had an urgent ROM update on any of my games. For some programmers it was a matter of how many....

 

Re. "backing", well, given that all the stuff to do with hopper levels is buried deep in library code which (and I can only speak for Mazooma) no one touched, apart from those who *knew* what they were doing, there is no correlation between hopper levels and how happy a machine was. Changing that would reflect in every game currently in development, adjusting makefiles, etc......nah don't even go there.

 

I used to look after the system software for foreign games at Mazooma, and it (all Bell Fruit code) was a spiders nest - very very complex - you had to know it backwards else you'd cause nightmares.

 

But I love all this urban myth stuff, always have, as I used to believe it myself before starting in the industry,


Edited by edwardb, 10 July 2018 - 03:00 PM.


#131 edwardb

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 03:01 PM

Really good thread! I would love someone to take one of these emulations, tweak it and leave us an easter egg to find! Maybe just a clue every week until someone finds it!

 

There is a plan afoot for an emulator-only game, which I'd let forum members design, and myself code it up over time. Can leave a few things in, for sure.

 

Just need a bit of time to do it....



#132 Mavroz

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 03:17 PM

Good to see/hear you are back around.






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