62 replies to this topic

[Geddy]

To resolve this....

 

Just to make it clear then, I'm not allowed to alter the layouts in anyway shape or form and must give credit to all the layout creators when making the dats BUT it's okay for the DX creators to alter artwork and flyers without crediting the original artists to make DX layouts?  Cool..... sorted.

[slasherx2]

Don't see the big deal if it reverts when the layout is loaded?

Have a feeling I'm missing something. Can someone please explain? Pm if necessary

[Geddy]

 

Glad you find it funny, I certainly don't and the designers who have had their names removed probably wouldn't either...

 

Your irony detector is not going into over drive then is it?

[Reg]

To resolve this....

 

Just to make it clear then, I'm not allowed to alter the layouts in anyway shape or form and must give credit to all the layout creators when making the dats BUT it's okay for the DX creators to alter artwork and flyers without crediting the original artists to make DX layouts?  Cool..... sorted.

 

Why can you not just do a simple rename of the .gam and .fml file and manually point the renamed .fml without having to save anything, even using the convention that you've done. 

That way you don't f*** the layouts that other people make ?

 

Also, accept that there is a geninue problem here that you are not including the .ram files and maybe from today you also rename them to the same conveation as the .gam file and everything works.

You have no reason to edit the .fml file.

 

You have every reason to included the .ram file.

 

This is a preservation scheme in your eyes is it not ?   So why not preserve with minimal change and actually leave it working rather then have some that are f***ed up ?

[Geddy]

Don't see the big deal if it reverts when the layout is loaded?

Have a feeling I'm missing something. Can someone please explain? Pm if necessary

 

You are not missing anything.

 

The layout dats employ a universal naming convention that is mainly for collectors.  The layout in it's factory reset mode. In MOST cases the 'captions' will revert to 'release' state if a layout is loaded.  I can of course make sure in the future this is the case for all. However this is really mountains and molehills....

[DAD]

Come on chaps please calm it down.   The DAT's are really only used by collectors who have been around since day dot and probably know full well who the original author of a layout is, plus the fact that they're not being re-released in their altered form.  Surely it's up the individual whether or not whether to use Geddy's excellent 'DAT' service.  Just for the record I don't use it, but having said that my collection is a complete mess and incomplete lol

 

Can I just add that when you've been around FME a while you get to recognise a designers 'style', its a bit like a fingerprint.  A JAFC, Reg, Pook or Ploggy is instantly recognisable.

[Geddy]

 

Why can you not just do a simple rename of the .gam and .fml file and manually point the renamed .fml without having to save anything, even using the convention that you've done. 

That way you don't f*** the layouts that other people make ?

 

Also, accept that there is a geninue problem here that you are not including the .ram files and maybe from today you also rename them to the same conveation as the .gam file and everything works.

You have no reason to edit the .fml file.

 

You have every reason to included the .ram file.

 

This is a preservation scheme in your eyes is it not ?   So why not preserve with minimal change and actually leave it working rather then have some that are f***ed up ?

 

You neglected to answer the point you quoted.  

 

*IF* I was to include ram files from now on I would have to go back and include ram files for all previous layouts to keep things right.  I'm not going to do that, we are talking 1000s of layouts. I'm fairly sure they are not needed from a collectors point of view.

 

Please answer me this....

 

1) When you originally make a layout from scratch how is the ram file created?

2) If you load a layout without a ram file and then exit the emulator it creates a ram file yes?

3) When creators make DX layouts from classics do they ALWAYS include the original ram file?

[Wizard]

Come on chaps please calm it down.   The DAT's are really only used by collectors who have been around since day dot and probably know full well who the original author of a layout is, plus the fact that they're not being re-released in their altered form.  Surely it's up the individual whether or not whether to use Geddy's excellent 'DAT' service.  Just for the record I don't use it, but having said that my collection is a complete mess and incomplete lol

 

Can I just add that when you've been around FME a while you get to recognise a designers 'style', its a bit like a fingerprint.  A JAFC, Reg, Pook or Ploggy is instantly recognisable.

 

Come on DAD don't find excuses for him , all we are asking for is that the Caption/Title bar remains the same as it was when released, I don't give a toss if the files are renamed or the RAMs are missing because like you, I don't use them and never will, but to deliberately ( or even mistakenly? ) remove the original Title is not fair to the designer.

 

You neglected to answer the point you quoted.  

 

*IF* I was to include ram files from now on I would have to go back and include ram files for all previous layouts to keep things right.  I'm not going to do that, we are talking 1000s of layouts. I'm fairly sure they are not needed from a collectors point of view.

 

Please answer me this....

 

1) When you originally make a layout from scratch how is the ram file created?

2) If you load a layout without a ram file and then exit the emulator it creates a ram file yes?

3) When creators make DX layouts from classics do they ALWAYS include the original ram file?

 

1) It's effectively a default RAM that is saved when the game exits.

2) Yes

3) No, but it's not normally a default RAM file as some things need setting up like Refill, Volume and BNV settings but that depends on the tech

Edited by Wizard, 31 January 2017 - 10:12 PM.

[Geddy]

 

Come on DAD don't find excuses for him , all we are asking for is that the Caption/Title bar remains the same as it was when released, I don't give a toss if the files are renamed or the RAMs are missing because like you, I don't use them and never will, but to deliberately ( or even mistakenly? ) remove the original Title is not fair to the designer.

 

Neither is trying to profit from other folks work financially, neither is altering folks artwork for DXs etc etc etc.... like I said where do you draw the line?  Does it not matter if an 'unknown' artist or coder is burned?

[Reg]

 

You neglected to answer the point you quoted.  

 

*IF* I was to include ram files from now on I would have to go back and include ram files for all previous layouts to keep things right.  I'm not going to do that, we are talking 1000s of layouts. I'm fairly sure they are not needed from a collectors point of view.

 

Please answer me this....

 

1) When you originally make a layout from scratch how is the ram file created?

2) If you load a layout without a ram file and then exit the emulator it creates a ram file yes?

3) When creators make DX layouts from classics do they ALWAYS include the original ram file?

 

1. The emulator generates it and then you go into the settings ( which collectors may not be able to do / find / understand how to ) and change various bits.  Even designers forget and recently I had to check with Pook on something.  The work that is then done is saved automatically when the layouts exits.

 

2. Yes, but not always fully work as the designer of the layout will have intended.  For instance, a layout when released could come with full Cash Pots - ie - the work I did to help with the recent Big Shot.  This is the key point.  If you are trying to do this for collectors, don't you have an obligation to actually do it right ?

 

3. I don't know if they include the original, however at the point of release when they do their layout that is their vision again and how they intended it.  In your example, the DX is a progression of the original Classic and as it's released it's fair game to say whatever .ram file it came with is ok.

 

Nobody is saying go back to the beginning and that is very unreasonable, but is there a reason not to do the right thing from now onwards ?

Edited by Reg, 31 January 2017 - 10:15 PM.

[Wizard]

Don't see the big deal if it reverts when the layout is loaded?

Have a feeling I'm missing something. Can someone please explain? Pm if necessary

 

It doesn't. it's gone forever because the DAT naming format has replaced the original Caption and the layout has been resaved

[Wizard]

 

Neither is trying to profit from other folks work financially, neither is altering folks artwork for DXs etc etc etc.... like I said where do you draw the line?  Does it not matter if an 'unknown' artist or coder is burned?

 

Two wrongs don't make a right, as I said before there is no need to resave the layout file, in fact why do you do this? When a simple renaming of the file will do

Edited by Wizard, 31 January 2017 - 10:29 PM.

[Geddy]

In most cases it's not gone forever. The game line was added to the gam file and once the layout is loaded it reverts. Only very recently has this not been the case.

However since its causing so much concern I'll cease to release layout dat files. I don't want to upset folk or cause issues in the scene.

[slasherx2]

 
It doesn't. it's gone forever because the DAT naming format has replaced the original Caption and the layout has been resaved

If this is the case, why is Geddy saying it does in most cases and he could make sure they all do in future?

Sorry not meaning to sound ignorant, I'm trying to get my head round it and get educated by asking questions

[Reg]

In most cases it's not gone forever. The game line was added to the gam file and once the layout is loaded it reverts. Only very recently has this not been the case.

However since its causing so much concern I'll cease to release layout dat files. I don't want to upset folk or cause issues in the scene.

 

Now we all know that is not going to happen...

 

...where has anyone said don't do this ?

 

All that is being asked is you preserve the authors that have been removed and please add .ram files even from this year ?

[Wizard]

GAME is now included in the .gam file so the manager can pick it up without having to open the .fml as in previous releases. This makes scanning 50x faster at least. It is not used in the config ( .fml ) at all.

The caption is stored in the .fml file so for that to now have a DAT naming format means it's been changed by hand and the fml file resaved.

 

There is no need to do this unless the intention is to deliberately remove the original credit.

 

All that is needed is to rename the fml file and then check "use file names in manager" to display the file name rather than the game name.

Edited by Wizard, 31 January 2017 - 10:43 PM.

[Wizard]

Just to add you cannot just edit the GAME nnnnnn entry in the .gam file as it will just get overwritten by the one in the .fml file when the game exits.

 

Perhaps this is the reason you have been changing the .fml file ?

[vectra666]

Right I've read this topic, and from what I'm understanding geddy does a good job cataloguing all the layouts from year dot afaik no one else has. What I don't get is why alter the caption, so what you're basically doing is removing the author , so say "The Italian job by vectra666 21\12\2016" now reads just "the Italian job" if true that's not right in my eyes, it's a bit like having a painting by Monet and removing the signature basically making the work involved worthless and fake!. MAybe in future all designers should start watermarking their releases with their designer name, I did on mazooma belle via the sec counter.
The ram files, as we've seen from mfme5 if you clear the ram or make a new one it removes sound, bvn keys cashpots and such which take a age to refill, could you not from now on include two rams, the original and factory reset!
As for giving thanks , yes it is good practice to say a few words but you can't thank everyone involved in making a layout, it'll be like the Oscars everytime
If something is uploaded to a site then the uploader should expect it to be used freely without the need to thank all the time, Christ if that's the case I'd be thanking members from 2002 etc although I do try a thank whoever I can or remember if I forget anyone don't worry I'm always grateful!!
Don't forget it's not the members whom made the ROMs, artwork it's the machine manufacturers/designers but we don't thank them?

[Geddy]

 What I don't get is why alter the caption, so what you're basically doing is removing the author , so say "The Italian job by vectra666 21\12\2016" now reads just "the Italian job" if true that's not right in my eyes, it's a bit like having a painting by Monet and removing the signature basically making the work involved worthless and fake!. 

 

But you altering original flyer artwork etc to produce DXs is fine?  Okay, gotcha... 

 

Removing a Monet sig still means Monet painted the picture the same as removing 'vecs' from a caption does not mean you did not make the layout..... crikey...

 

Like I said I do not tell Reg how to produce his layouts or Wizard how to do his coding etc etc - I was quite happy doing the dats they way the wider emulation community preferred them and as uniformly as possible but apparently that is not acceptable now so to avoid upsetting MFME's coder and his closest ally I'll just cease making layout dats.

[Wizard]

 

But you altering original flyer artwork etc to produce DXs is fine?  Okay, gotcha... 

 

Removing a Monet sig still means Monet painted the picture the same as removing 'vecs' from a caption does not mean you did not make the layout..... crikey...

 

Like I said I do not tell Reg how to produce his layouts or Wizard how to do his coding etc etc - I was quite happy doing the dats they way the wider emulation community preferred them and as uniformly as possible but apparently that is not acceptable now so to avoid upsetting MFME's coder and his closest ally I'll just cease making layout dats.

 

That's probably the best bet as you seem to have completely failed to grasp the points mentioned and the solution offered.